are "A" authentic SGC & PSA cards gaining momentum with collectors/dealers

[Thrill-of-the-Hunt]

i have noticed lately alot of SGC "A" cards (assumed trimmed for the most part) are starting to sell for quite some money on ebay. there are multiple bidders as well.

my question is.... are authentic but trimmed cards collectible enough to spend $100 - $1000's on? or is this a great racket for card doctors whose cards get caught but still encapsulated? or, do some buyers think there is a chance to send the card back in for a numberical grade and make a nice profit? maybe all the above?

i saw a T205 cobb sell for $850 , a number of 1915 CJ in the $50 - $100 each, T206 HOFers $60 - $$$ as a small example.

[Northviewcats]

I worry that a few dealers have been making money buying authentic graded cards, and breaking them out of the holders, and not disclosing the trimming. If the profit is there I'm sure people are doing it.

[Leon]

If the AUT card is priced reasonably (a very relative term) then I think they can be good values. There is some acceptance among many collectors and they are becoming more accepted, so it seems. I would prefer a number grade but an AUT or two doesn't kill me. I have some in my collection. It also depends on the availability and price of other specimens. My E271 is an AUT but the alternative is quite a bit more than I paid, if you can even find one.

[nfbuckeye]

I only own one "A" card a t206 Home Run Baker that I got at a very good price. In the future, if I can find a good looking card that would normally be out of my price range for a very good price, I'll jump on it. I'm not looking for resale value, so it doesn't hurt me at all.

[terjung]

To me, it all depends on three things:

1- The scarcity of the card - how available is the card in a numerically graded holder?

2- The reason for the "A" rating. Not all reasons for receiving the "A" are equal in my book. Trimmed vs. restored vs. recolored vs. a piece of tape on the back are not equal in terms of value or desire to me.

3- Eye appeal. I'd rather have an "A" card due to a piece of tape on the back then a chewed up beater graded a PSA 1 or SGC 10.

[Abravefan11]

I don't think the trend is that collectors are becoming more accepting of trimmed cards as much as all ready slabbed trimmed cards with great eye appeal are becoming acceptable alternatives to Poor and Fair graded cards for the same price.

Collectors on a budget may not be able to afford an EX example, but can afford an Authentic graded card with and EX appearance for the price they would pay for a 1 or 2.

[Mark]

Speaking only for myself, I find that I am more receptive to the A cards than before. But that may be a reflection on the sets that I collect.

[Anthony S.]

Sometimes people buy "A" cards because they know the grading game can be a bit of a crapshoot. This card (not mine) sold as an "A" for $152 on July 19, 2008. On July 16, 2009 it sold as an SGC 60 for $541. Obviously, no alterations were made. It was simply resubmitted.

[Rickyy]

Perfectly acceptable to me too... I have several..hand cuts or slight trims...I've come to like them!

[ethicsprof]

a number of my Nagy cards are Authentic---i remember a couple others of you noting the same with your E90 Nagy's---
and i love them and display them with pride in my office.
best,
barry

[Idiottax]

Being a new collector to pre-war cards, I'm not opposed to trimmed cards, though I would say that I have a preference towards obviously trimmed cards, such as those missing one or three borders, over those which were shaved down to make the card look like it has crisper borders.

I think it also affects me that the first tobacco card I bought was an Orval Overall which was well-trimmed as a one-off, before realizing that I could live the dream of collecting tobacco cards.

[E93]

Originally Posted by terjung

To me, it all depends on three things:

1- The scarcity of the card - how available is the card in a numerically graded holder?

2- The reason for the "A" rating. Not all reasons for receiving the "A" are equal in my book. Trimmed vs. restored vs. recolored vs. a piece of tape on the back are not equal in terms of value or desire to me.

3- Eye appeal. I'd rather have an "A" card due to a piece of tape on the back then a chewed up beater graded a PSA 1 or SGC 10.

+1

It depends entirely on the card for me. I have several "Authentic" cards in my collection. In most cases, they are so rare that I could not find another example if I wanted to.
JimB

[Chris Counts]

When I got back in the hobby 10 years ago after a 20-year break, I quickly discovered eBay. The first card I bought was a 1953 Bowman common. When I showed it to my brother, who never stopped collecting, he quickly pointed out that it was trimmed. This was my introduction to the graded card era. At least it wasn't a Mantle ...

Over the past decade, I have slowly come around to the idea that trimmed cards are okay. As a result, I am able to obtain sharp-looking examples of cards I'd never own under normal circumstances since my budget for old cards is much smaller than my ambition for collecting them. Perhaps equally important to me, though, is the fact that I worry a lot less about what is trimmed in my collection and what isn't. Let's face it, the are countless trimmed cards encased in slabs.

I generally search for cards in the 4-5 range that have exceptional eye appeal. Tape stains, pinholes and just about any type of damage to the back are okay to me. Trimmed is just another flaw in a card that I can live with.

Last weekend, I came across this stunning but trimmed 1915 Cracker Jack of Chick Gandil. I quickly checked the prices of other examples on eBay. I found three examples: an 8 for $3,000, a 5.5 for $935 and a particularly unattractive 2 at $400. I figured the price on the 5.5 was fair because the seller was one of my favorite dealers, Shoebox Cards. So I paid less than half the price of the 2 for a card that has the appearance of a 7 or an 8. Needless to say, I'm thrilled with the purchase.

Perhaps one day baseball cards will be looked upon like art or antiques and enhancements or alterations will be considered just another part of an item's history and will be factored into its value accordingly ...

[cmcclelland]

I think that the whole issue of trimmed cards in the hobby has been overblown and gotten a bad rap. People have been trimming baseball cards since baseball cards were first invented. After third party card grading came into the picture, there started to be this growing attitude in the hobby that a trimmed card was basically almost worthless.

To me, it's all about the eye appeal of the card - not the number on the slab. I would much rather have a trimmed card like the Cracker Jack in the post above than a total beater in a 1,2,3 holder.

Just to give a personal example - I own several 1952 Topps Mantle cards. I've got a PSA 2.5, a PSA 4, and SGC 70, an SGC 80 and a SGC A. My least favorite is the SGC 80 - it's off center and the blue background is not as bold as it could be. The SGC A is a beautiful card. Clearly, it's been slightly trimmed. It's also got a small crease (I still don't understand why anyone would trim a creased card!). But, the image and the color are better than any of the other Mantles I own. The blue background just pops and the white borders are pack fresh. I also like the PSA 2.5 better than the PSA 4, but I won't ramble on about that. The main point to me is this - for me it all comes down to the buying a card that I like at a price that I feel is a good value.

At the end of the day, who cares what PSA or SGC or anyone else says about a card - as long as it's not a fake it really just comes down to how you like the look of the card. It's kind of like wine (another one of my bad habits). I could care less what Robert Parker or Wine Spectator or anyone else rates a wine on a numeric scale. I just want to drink a wine that I think tastes good.

P.S. - I was the one that bought the SGC A T205 Cobb on ebay that was referenced in the original post. It's a beautiful card.

[Thrill-of-the-Hunt]

yes, cards have been trimmed by their owners (kids) for all sorts of reasons. dealers may have trimmed cards in the late 70's - 80's (before tpg) to sell a card as NM or MINT (wagner) to an unsuspecting buyer. with tpg the point of their service was to identify alterations (and offer numerical assessment).

what i have found is that "A" cards are becoming a nice little business on their own. people are spending real money on these cards. yes, eye appeal and pack freshness has a real value, but its not easy to determine what the card is worth (like a graded card). some of these cards may not be trimmed or not caught on a re-submit and can turn a real nice profit for the educated buyer.

[tbob]

I posted several years ago that in the future I saw nice slightly trimmed "authentic" graded cards surpassing PSA 1s and 2s in the near future and I have no reason to think differently. It's all about eye appeal to me and if I have a great looking Matty E98 in an authentic holder which looks like a 7 or 8, I'd still much rather own it than a ratty looking, heavily creased card or a creased card with severely rounded corners. To each his own...

[obcbobd]

I collect cards not plastic holders. What matters is the card, the writing on the holder (A, 1, 2,..) is not important to me.

[glchen]

Personally, I don't like to buy A cards due to trimming because I feel that encourages that behavior. For example, say someone has a very nice card, but with a tiny pinhole in the top of the border. The pinhole would automatically reduce the card to a grade of 1. The owner of the card would then trim the card to remove the pinhole. Now the card would have beautiful eye appeal of a card with a much higher grade, it will now probably even sell better than if it were encapsulated as a 1 with a pinhole. There are other examples of this where an owner might try to remove slightly dented corners through trimming. If this trend continues, I think more people would try re-constructing cards like the T206 Wagner and Plank and were basically re-built from scratch. In general, I don't like to buy A's at inflated prices due to these reasons.

I think the reasons that A's sell better these days are much like what previous posters have said. First the eye appeal of a trimmed A is nicer than a beater 1. The other reason is the crapshoot grading where if you keep re-submitting trimmed cards, unless it is very obvious, it might get a number grade in the future.

[Rob D.]

I've been dying to get my hands on an N172 Old Judge McPhee in an "A" holder.

[Robextend]

Originally Posted by E93

+1

It depends entirely on the card for me. I have several "Authentic" cards in my collection. In most cases, they are so rare that I could not find another example if I wanted to.
JimB

I agree.

If I really want the card bad enough and it doesn't come around for sale too often, I will take an "A" over nothing.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

I've been dying to get my hands on an N172 Old Judge McPhee in an "A" holder.

Wow, what a lucky break for you -- it's on BST as we speak! Good thing that McPhee thread was up to get you all foaming at the mouth about the card.

[Anthony S.]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

I've been dying to get my hands on an N172 Old Judge McPhee in an "A" holder.

Magical coincidence, but the same individual who started a thread about his McPhee on the main board last week has now listed it on the BST. These are exciting times we live in.

[jdubbs10]

Originally Posted by Anthony S.

Magical coincidence, but the same individual who started a thread about his McPhee on the main board last week has now listed it on the BST. These are exciting times we live in.

You mean this mcphee.

[Anthony S.]

Originally Posted by jdubbs10

You mean this mcphee.

Yes, that one. Little know fact, Bid's middle name was Pump'n'dump. It's Dutch.

[glchen]

I don't have a problem with Josh selling his McPhee. He said early on he was thinking of selling it unlike the situation of the T202 Joe Jackson, which was hyped and then sold on ebay.

[Kenny Cole]

Too bad Hal still isn't here. He could talk about what a piece of shit the card was and then buy it a bit later. Oh, the good old days

[calvindog]

Oh Hal really had a problem separating truth from fiction. He was almost immune from honesty when it came to selling or buying cards. I used to really enjoy how much effort he'd put into shilling the hell out of one of his cards prior to an auction ending; he had a real gift that guy. There was never an auction too small for ol' Hal to create a web of deceit around.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Too bad Hal still isn't here. He could talk about what a piece of shit the card was and then buy it a bit later. Oh, the good old days

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA I remember he tried to do that on a Toleteros Gibson.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The best title to a post, ever, in my opinion was one by Ryan C. responding to something Hal wrote -- "Halley's Vomit."