Outed cards, now including a 130K gain on an Aaron rookie

[Peter_Spaeth]

BODA accuses "thousands" of modern cards being sold currently.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1336745

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

BODA accuses "thousands" of modern cards being sold currently.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1336745

The link to the DC5 song was appropriate.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

The link to the DC5 song was appropriate.

That seems to be the mentality?

[swarmee]

Still can't believe PSA hasn't recalled slabs owned by some of these high volume submitters... and continuing to let known scammers have grading privileges to continue scamming the collecting community.
Tone deaf. The potential refunds keep mounting.

And where are these cards selling through? More liability to the PWCC reimbursement guarantee, fencing cards for a known trimmer. Recall the hat in hand Brent post from 6 months ago:

We are obviously very aware of the issues surrounding the cards submitted to us by Gary Moser. First, we want to apologize to all those who have been affected by the purchasing of trimmed or altered cards. We are not disappearing or burying our heads in the sand about this. Next, we are presently working with both PSA and law enforcement to ensure that all affected cards are brought to light and this information makes its way to our customers. We understand that we are responsible for our part in this mess and will do all that we can to make it right in connection with Moser-submitted cards as well as other submitters who may have altered cards of which we auctioned. We understand how difficult it is to be patient through this process but we are working through this as quickly as we can at the direction of counsel and the appropriate authorities. Finally, in response to these recent findings, we are no longer selling any Moser-submitted cards.

We are very sorry for the trouble that has occurred and will work to regain your trust.

No posts on Blowout since that post. Last login 3 months ago.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Still can't believe PSA hasn't recalled slabs owned by some of these high volume submitters... and continuing to let known scammers have grading privileges to continue scamming the collecting community.
Tone deaf. The potential refunds keep mounting.

And where are these cards selling through? More liability to the PWCC reimbursement guarantee, fencing cards for a known trimmer. Recall the hat in hand Brent post from 6 months ago:

No posts on Blowout since that post. Last login 3 months ago.

Gary is only one of many problems he has, IMO.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

BODA accuses "thousands" of modern cards being sold currently.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1336745

Not surprising in the least. Undoubtedly the card doctors have been forming a conga line with their dubious submissions lately. Why else would PSA be receiving a record number of submissions in this day and age when there is nothing in the open market of raw cards to indicate a major increase in the supply of collectible cards? Yet CU and their stockholders are just blissfully giddy at the revenue they've generated of late.

[japhi]

Some of the largest comc submitters were show to be trimming everything. From a 2 dollar base card up. And why not? PSA can’t detect and for 10 seconds work you can turn a 5 dollar bill into a 20 or 50 dollar bill. Some will get rejected or damaged in the process but it is an incredibly easy way to make money.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Still can't believe PSA hasn't recalled slabs owned by some of these high volume submitters... and continuing to let known scammers have grading privileges to continue scamming the collecting community.
Tone deaf. The potential refunds keep mounting.

And where are these cards selling through? More liability to the PWCC reimbursement guarantee, fencing cards for a known trimmer. Recall the hat in hand Brent post from 6 months ago:

No posts on Blowout since that post. Last login 3 months ago.

Limitless greed and the almighty dollar.

Yet still the threads continue about sending in massive submissions and giving consignments to these crooks.

[Peter_Spaeth]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1336944

From BODA:
ALERT: Heritage Selling Trimmed PSA 8 1916 Sporting News Jim Thorpe- ENDS TONIGHT

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Limitless greed and the almighty dollar.

Yet still the threads continue about sending in massive submissions and giving consignments to these crooks.

That statement begs the question, If you are not a crook but support crooks does that make you a crook by association?

At this point is there anybody who does not believe PSA* and Beckett* are 100% in on it? At this point with the small % of the bad cards in SGC holders I will pull a PSA supporter and say it could be human error. Admittingly they do seem to be going down hill fast.

*at minimum they have employees in on it

[Andrew1975]

Ironic typo in the Heritage description of the Thorpe card...

“Jim Thorpe is regraded as one of the top athletes of the 20th Century.”

[JeremyW]

Originally Posted by Andrew1975

Ironic typo in the Heritage description of the Thorpe card...

“Jim Thorpe is regraded as one of the top athletes of the 20th Century.”

Good eye.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Trimmed or not how is this a 10?
Top bottom centering? Back centering?

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=197

[phikappapsi]

is it time to just start viewing everything as trimmed? or, just buy items in an "A" slab, and take the eye sweet at a massive value?

right now, my perception is that a PSA 10 and a PSA "A" are at this point, the same thing, so just pay less and buy the trimmed card that is admittedly trimmed, over the fraudulent 10 at a massive premium, that's likely also trimmed.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Trimmed or not how is this a 10?
Top bottom centering? Back centering?

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=197

Just on aesthetics alone, I like the 8 better than the 10. The trapezoid cut (or trim job) is more pronounced on the 10. Sadly someone paid a lot of money for a number rather on the overall merits of the card on it's own.

Looking through the entire thread, there's a lot of 8's and 8.5's getting either 9's and 10's on some 50 to 70 year old cards which should be a red flag in itself. Again, why are all these seemingly pristine cards suddenly surfacing in droves? The old adage "If it's too good to be true..." seems to apply quite nicely in this case.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Trimmed or not how is this a 10?
Top bottom centering? Back centering?

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=197

It's not what you know.... It's who you know.

[iwantitiwinit]

[QUOTE=phikappapsi;1936527]is it time to just start viewing everything as trimmed? or, just buy items in an "A" slab, and take the eye sweet at a massive value?

right now, my perception is that a PSA 10 and a PSA "A" are at this point, the same thing, so just pay less and buy the trimmed card that is admittedly trimmed, over the fraudulent 10 at a massive premium, that's likely also trimmed.[/QUOTE

You're right. All PSA is now is an envapsulator in my mind. They simply slab cards.

[iwantitiwinit]

[QUOTE=iwantitiwinit;1936717]

Originally Posted by phikappapsi

is it time to just start viewing everything as trimmed? or, just buy items in an "A" slab, and take the eye sweet at a massive value?

right now, my perception is that a PSA 10 and a PSA "A" are at this point, the same thing, so just pay less and buy the trimmed card that is admittedly trimmed, over the fraudulent 10 at a massive premium, that's likely also trimmed.[/QUOTE

You're right. All PSA is now is an encapsulator in my mind. They simply slab cards.

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by phikappapsi

is it time to just start viewing everything as trimmed?

We all probably should have been doing this all along. Doing one's own homework on a card regardless if it is slabbed or raw is probably the best course of action and make a purchasing decision based on this information.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It ain't me, Babe.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...68&postcount=1

[Scott L.]

They say you’re a 4 but we don't know
A chemical bath and watch that number grow
Well I don't know if all that's true
'A rebuilt corner, and baby I got you
A bump Babe
I got you a bump babe
I got you a bump babe

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Scott L.

They say you’re a 4 but we don't know
A chemical bath and watch that number grow
Well I don't know if all that's true
'A rebuilt corner, and baby I got you
A bump Babe
I got you a bump babe
I got you a bump babe

Thanks for Chering.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Thanks for Chering.

This post was not pro Bono.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

This post was not pro Bono.

Correct, sonny.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Green Cobb "vaults" ahead with a wrinkle removal.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...9&postcount=28

[Peter_Spaeth]

And a reglued Red. My.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...6&postcount=32

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And a reglued Red. My.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...6&postcount=32

Wow this one is really bad changing or adding lettering ? What’s next front of card

[Peter_Spaeth]

Red Cobb, SGC 5.5, formerly PSA altered, in PWCC.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1337657

[ALBB]

Serious question here -

Does anyone know what these " card doctors" charge to do their " magic" ?

Ive seen loads of cards that get worked on, then get a huge bump in price, but what about the cards that end up getting " just : a $500-$1000 increase...,is a profit made on those ?

Does the " doctor " have a price list - cleaning - 350, trimming 650, recoloring.etc...

Always wondered about that ??

[phikappapsi]

Originally Posted by ALBB

Serious question here -

Does anyone know what these " card doctors" charge to do their " magic" ?

Ive seen loads of cards that get worked on, then get a huge bump in price, but what about the cards that end up getting " just : a $500-$1000 increase...,is a profit made on those ?

Does the " doctor " have a price list - cleaning - 350, trimming 650, recoloring.etc...

Always wondered about that ??

haha - this is intriguing. like the college admissions scandal! Pretty sure these guys are doing it for themselves in a closed loop, and it's not a 'random stranger bring me your vintage raws, and for 10% I'll turn them into gold' thing.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by phikappapsi

haha - this is intriguing. like the college admissions scandal! Pretty sure these guys are doing it for themselves in a closed loop, and it's not a 'random stranger bring me your vintage raws, and for 10% I'll turn them into gold' thing.

Dick Towle offers his services to customers. His work and people's views of it have been discussed at length.

[phikappapsi]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Dick Towle offers his services to customers. His work and people's views of it have been discussed at length.

fair enough - i meant the people doing it in secret. like moser (not a well kept secret, but he's attempting (successfully) to defraud. at least these guys are telling the world they're doing it - on the front end at least. wish their work came with a watermark.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by phikappapsi

fair enough - i meant the people doing it in secret. like moser (not a well kept secret, but he's attempting (successfully) to defraud. at least these guys are telling the world they're doing it - on the front end at least. wish their work came with a watermark.

My belief is that the card doctors work alone or sometimes partner with a money guy. For example, my belief is that Johnny Adams, Jr. was not himself working cards.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Red Cobb, SGC 5.5, formerly PSA altered, in PWCC.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1337657

After a lot of soul searching I think we should NOT avoid PWCC. Everyone should bid high, early, and often. Seriously we need to keep the values up so it doesn't affect they honest collectors and dealers. After all the majority of participants in this hobby are good honest people. If people boycott sellers it will drive prices down, how is that fair.

Then we have to consider there are really only a couple of bad people with a few altered cards. Hell there might not even be any altered cards. Plus this is all new so how could anybody have known. It could also be the people on BO are pulling a hoax and photoshopping some cards to prank us.

On a real serious note if I ever post about this again please call me a moronic idiot for even caring. Hell the moronic idiots who actually collect this stuff don't.

[Republicaninmass]

I'm not even putting any of his auctions on my watch list.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Red Cobb 17K, sure hope it was not in fact altered as PSA graded it.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Red Cobb 17K, sure hope it was not in fact altered as PSA graded it.

There's a small spot upper left ish in the background that might be recolored. I just can't tell from the scan, even that really nice scan.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Wow this one is really bad changing or adding lettering ? What’s next front of card

The surface was peeled, and it looks like they glued it back in place.
Oddly, they missed the "E" from series, which was floating loose near the lower border of the upper area.

[ALBB]

Obviously, these guys are making money with the trimming and modifying .

I wonder if it was a deal of - " lets see what some suckers pays..then we split the difference ? "

[irv]

Originally Posted by bnorth

After a lot of soul searching I think we should NOT avoid PWCC. Everyone should bid high, early, and often. Seriously we need to keep the values up so it doesn't affect they honest collectors and dealers. After all the majority of participants in this hobby are good honest people. If people boycott sellers it will drive prices down, how is that fair.

Then we have to consider there are really only a couple of bad people with a few altered cards. Hell there might not even be any altered cards. Plus this is all new so how could anybody have known. It could also be the people on BO are pulling a hoax and photoshopping some cards to prank us.

On a real serious note if I ever post about this again please call me a moronic idiot for even caring. Hell the moronic idiots who actually collect this stuff don't.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Big gainer for Jake.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=431

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Big gainer for Jake.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=431

..after almost three years , and assuming the buyer of the ''9'' sees this post , is there any recourse to a refund ? From whom , ? The auction house or PSA ? I'm in awe of both those selling prices....
..

[Peter_Spaeth]

4K plus gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=435

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia

..after almost three years , and assuming the buyer of the ''9'' sees this post , is there any recourse to a refund ? From whom , ? The auction house or PSA ? I'm in awe of both those selling prices....
..

PSA

If the sale was real

[Peter_Spaeth]

Hatchet job on a 52T Rosen.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=438

[Peter_Spaeth]

And a 4K corner job on another 52T.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=444

[111gecko]

So disgusting. How are those 8s? This certainly doesn't help some of the "on the fence if there is an insider at PSA grading these cards crowd)...which I am.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by 111gecko

So disgusting. How are those 8s? This certainly doesn't help some of the "on the fence if there is an insider at PSA grading these cards crowd)...which I am.

NO normal person submitting those cards would ever receive an "8".

I would be thrilled if it came back with a 6 in that condition, and would fully expect a 5 (or an "A", to be more specific). WTH is going on in Newport Beach?

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by perezfan

NO normal person submitting those cards would ever receive an "8".

I would be thrilled if it came back with a 6 in that condition, and would fully expect a 5 (or an "A", to be more specific). WTH is going on in Newport Beach?

They Are printing money

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

They Are printing money

Bingo. And won't stop unless they are directed by a higher power.