Ebay..What would happen regarding this situation?

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Posted By: Paul Grubor

Lets say you run an auction and a card sells for $800.00. The auction is won by a buyer that has 4 negatives out of 100 feedbacks. He pays you a few days later via paypal and you send the item registered Mail insured. A few days later you get an email stating that a dispute has been opened for the $800.00 because the package didn't contain the card the buyer bid on. You know for a fact that the card was in the package, so now what can you do? This scenario has always been my biggest fear regarding running expensive items on Ebay. I could probably only accept a Cashiers check or Postal MO on expensive items, but that might eliminate some legit bidders. Can anyone give me suggestions when listing expensive cards?

Thanks,

Paul

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Posted By: Matt

While the policy is not a good one, I believe all Paypal needs to find in your favor is the confirmation that a package arrived. 2 Years ago I bought a pair of shoes on ebay and received an empty box. Paypal sided with the seller. (As a follow up, I filed a claim with the police who ended up going after the guy for a number of fraud charges; I never did get my money back)

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Posted By: brian

I don't accept PayPal for the very reason Paul cited. If somebody wants something bad enough and it is a fairly rare item, they will bid regardless of payment method/terms. And if they do not bid, then they really didn't want it badly enough.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I shipped something really expensive once, using UPS I think, and, due to the method of shipping or amount of insurance, UPS made sure the item I listed was in the box before shipping.

A good defense against someone who has a history of being dishonest is a history of being honest.

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Posted By: Jim VB

Brian,

From a buyers point of view, there is a flip side to your thoughts. Unless it's someone I know, I'm very reluctant to buy when Paypal isn't an option. Sure, I don't mind buying from a board member and sending a check, but Ebay? I think about it really hard.

Paypal gets me my cards shipped quicker (no wait for a check to clear) and at a much lower risk from my (the buyer) side.

I realize that there is a cost associated with a seller accepting Paypal, but that should be one of the costs of doing business. As a seller, you have your money faster with no risk of bad checks, and no trips to the bank for deposits.

That one bidder you lose, by not excepting Paypal, may be the winning bidder, or the underbidder that drives the price high.

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Posted By: Eric

Edited to add: If he files a claim against you, list all your evidence and you should be good.

You get into problems if/when the seller does a chargeback to your account through his credit card.

The only way PAYPAL will side with the seller in this senario, is if you shipped with signature confirmation. You can have insurance, delivery confirmation, etc, but if you don't do signature confirmation on items sold over $250, you're pretty much screwed.

I know because this happened to me, when the guy issued a charge back against me when he lost his PAYPAL claim, followed by ebay claim.

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Posted By: don fluckinger

It costs more, but if you have concerns about a situation as outlined in the original post, you could go the route of taking the card to a local shipper such as The UPS Store and having them pack it.

They see the card, they can verify it was what you said, and depending on the shipper, there is sometimes additional third-party insurance on it.

While it's not as convenient, it's backup that would be welcome if the chips were down.

And before you diss their abilities to ship stuff safely, my local guys shipped a fragile Fender Rhodes electric piano to the Netherlands for me I sold on eBay and there were no complaints whatsoever.

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Posted By: dan mckee

Easy fix. DON'T ACCEPT PAYPAL, PERIOD. I don't and feel I am losing no bids. If someone wants an item, they will bid no matter the payment method. Scot Gaynor sells tons of stuff and some very nice stuff and doesn't accept it either. Dan.

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Posted By: Jeff Prizner

Auction Houses don't take paypal and they seem to do fine. If your feedback is good, buyers shouldn't have a problem writing a check. Wasn't that long ago when there was no paypal, is writing a check really that much of a deterrent to bidding?

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Posted By: scgaynor

If you use signature confirmation you are fine with Paypal under Paypal's terms.

However, if the buyer goes straight to his credit card and files a claim, you are screwed no matter what. If Paypal can't collect from credit card company, then they will take the money from you, it does not matter if you sent the card with signature confirmation.

In other words, Paypal's "seller protection" only applies if the the claim stays within the paypal system.

If a buyer looks like problems just tell them that you won't accept paypal due to their poor feedback. If they don't complete the transaction, assume that you have just dodged a bullet.

Scott

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Posted By: Dave S

Hey Paul..I had almost the exact scenario in '02 in the midst of PayPal's class-action suit. PayPal did nothing. I lost a mid-grade '52 Bowman Mantle as well as the money they debitted my account. Dan hit the nail on the head, stop using them...not going to cost you many bids.

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Posted By: Elm

I gotta chime in on this one. Saying that not offering PayPal DOESN'T cost you bids is completely disingenuous. Countless people, myself included, only bid on items with PayPal as an option, mainly for the reasons already mentioned in this thread.

I imagine the OP realizes this fact and that's why he's looking for guidance against scammers. Wish I had some helpful advice, but the only thing I can offer is this. If I were to sell an expensive item I'd use my digital camera to film me putting it in the envelope and sealing it, etc. Maybe even film the envelope being actually posted at the post office or UPS. If the scammer tries to pull something, you can forward the digital footage to PayPal. With memory capabilities of computers these days, you could easily store these 'films' without overloading your machine.

Not a perfect solution, but a pretty decent one.

Edited to add: If for some reason you don't have one yet, digital cameras with video capabilities have greatly dropped in price. I have a Canon PowerShot SD1000 that I'm thrilled with. Very, very compact and the memory card holds a lot.

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Posted By: Matt

"Maybe even film the envelope being actually posted at the post office or UPS."

That won't work - I tried to present such evidence to both my credit card company and to paypal and they did not care for it.

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Posted By: Steve Murray

Under ebay rules is it permissible to say:

NO PAYPAL unless I know you.

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Posted By: Elm

Wow, Matt!! Man, that would've pissed me off beyond belief and I would've been on the phone with my lawyer in a second.

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Posted By: James Gallo

From a buyer standpoint paypal is quick and easy. I bought a couple of cards recently and had to send a money order, it seemed like it took forever to get the card 10-12 days later...

From a seller standpoint I get my money super quick which is greatly beneficial to me.

However, I do refuse to sell to people from outside the US often and as paypal and ebay continue to get worse for the seller I am thinking of not taking it anymore.

I think it is a bit easier when you just sell cards, because I sell so much other stuff it is almost expected that you will get paid with paypal these days.

I often will only buy something small if they take paypal because it is quick and easy, otherwise I often do pass so it does get me to bid a bit more often.

James G

Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

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Posted By: Jim Dale

As primarily a buyer on ebay and hardly ever a seller...if the seller is not accepting paypal I'm only bidding if its a "steal"

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Posted By: Steve

Under ebay rules is it permissible to say:

NO PAYPAL unless I know you.


Steve are you sure?

Steve

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Posted By: Steve Murray

is it, not it is I don't know the answer.

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Posted By: Steve

ohhhh is it.......lol NO it is not. If you say you accept paypal and have the logo
you must accept it. And if you have a the basic account and someone sends payment via a CC
you have to upgrade and accept it too. At least that is what happened to me.


sorry, my dyslexia.

Steve

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Posted By: cmoking

I'm not a lawyer and have no experience in class-action suits, but it just feels like Paypal is ripe for one of those. There are so many little things that feel like someone is getting screwed.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I prefer paypal, but if a seller doesn't take it then it doesn't deter me from bidding on a high dollar item....however there are times usually $20 or less items that I just don't bid on it if the seller doesn't take paypal because I'm too lazy to go get a money order or write a check, print out an invoice, address an envelope, stick a stamp on it, and walk to the mailbox.

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Posted By: Joseph Shirley

You think it is bad now, check out what Ebay/PayPal want to do next. They want to make Paypal the ONLY accepted payment on their site. They are going to test the idea out on ebay-australia. If it suceeds, it will only be a matter of time before they do it in the US. Here is the link to the PCGS chat room where I found the info: http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=650814&highlight_key=y&keyword1=paypal

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Posted By: Fred C

Aint gonna happen... they'd lose too much $$$.

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Posted By: Sean C

you should be OK with Paypal (with the insured being more important than the registered due to the value). If it was sent registered, then the USPS should be able to track every step of it's progress, and confirm all details with Paypal. Just in case, you may want to take any extra funds out of Paypal.

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Posted By: Joann

I think Steve and Steve are on to something here. What if I took the PayPal logo off an auction so that it was not an official payment method, but then in the text said to inquire about PayPal availability? That way I could see who the buyer is, if it's someone I know, or has good feedback or whatever. Then I could take PayPal via the generic Send Funds option in PayPal.

I wonder if that's against the rules or whatever. I can see that if you have the logo you can't restrict it (and as a practical matter, even if you tried there wouldn't be anything preventing someone from just clicking through the process). But if you don't have the logo, what is to stop you from saying that PayPal may be available by request? Or just say that other payment arrangements may be made by request without mentioning PP specifically. I'd think this would work.

I don't plan to auction anything significant anytime soon, but next time I do I might try that. As for lesser items, I'll def keep PP on there as an option. I think that for cheaper items PP is by far a preferred payment method for the reasons Dan stated - the hassle of paper payments just isn't worth it for low end items.

J

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Posted By: PaulArpasi

I sold a PSA 3 M116 Wagner last fall and received payment via Paypal. I shipped the card overnight with delivery confirmation to a confirmed address. I recieved positive feedback. 8 weeks later there was a chargeback. Apparently the purchases was made by a credit card and the owner of the card challenged the charge with the bank. Paypal initiated a chargeback and I was debited 2200.00 on my Paypal account. They reversed the chargeback under their seller protection policy. (Mailed insured with delivery confirmation to a confirmed address). I thought that it was over but when the credit card company did not pay for the item they charged back again 1 month later. I called and spoke to a customer service rep who agreed that it was unfair. After a meeting at Paypal, I received a call saying that they would honor my seller protection. In the end they did the right thing but what a pain.