I'm probably just an idiot but... fakes

[Mountaineer1999]

I think I will just get out of the hobby. Too many crooks and I am apparently not smart enough to protect myself. I put a bid on a 1948 Bowman Kiner and to my surprise I won it for $20 bucks. The problem, the cards are fake. Just a little research would have saved me but to me they looked legit so I just threw out a $25 bid and it never got past $20 (other people are smarter than I am). This hobby is supposed to be fun but I am finding it a challenge dealing with all the crooks.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221679097101...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[CurtisFlood]

We have all been fooled at times. Don't let a bad apple spoil your hobby. May be better to buy at shows from people you know and can trust.

[Tabe]

Be glad you learned a $20 lesson and not a $1000 one.

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Be glad you learned a $20 lesson and not a $1000 one.

+1

We all have made mistakes in this hobby. This sort of thing shouldn't push you away, but motivate you to become more familiar with fakes, reprints, etc., If it were easy, it wouldn't be worth it

[HappyJack41]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Be glad you learned a $20 lesson and not a $1000 one.

Exactly, could have been A LOT worse. You're not the first and you surely won't be the last collector to be fooled on a fake of some kind. I certainly wouldn't let a $20 mistake ruin the hobby experience. Live and learn.

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer1999

I think I will just get out of the hobby. Too many crooks and I am apparently not smart enough to protect myself. I put a bid on a 1948 Bowman Kiner and to my surprise I won it for $20 bucks. The problem, the cards are fake. Just a little research would have saved me but to me they looked legit so I just threw out a $25 bid and it never got past $20 (other people are smarter than I am). This hobby is supposed to be fun but I am finding it a challenge dealing with all the crooks.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221679097101...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Donnie,

This is not a loss, you learned a valuable lesson and all you need to do is file a claim with Ebay. You will get your money back even if the seller tries to scare you away from that just file the claim ASAP as product not as advertised.
By the way, they are not fake but they are clearly reprints and he did advertise them as 1948s. It is possible he did not know the difference but I doubt it.

By the way.......I'll try and make your bad lesson a great one and try to win you back. I recently bought a lot of 1955 Bowman Baseball cards on here that included a Ralph Kiner card. I am waiting for them still but as soon as I get them in, I will mail you the REAL vintage 1955 Bowman Kiner for FREE. Not for the cost of the stamp or the postage or the actual card. I will send it for FREE. No strings. Just PM your name and address and realize that there are plenty of good folks out there.

Take care,

Peace, Mike

[cardsfan73]

Being the cards are fake and were listed as being original 1948 Bowmans I would simply return them as Item Not As Described. You shouldn't have any problem getting your money back from ebay even if the sellers tries to make things difficult.

We have all made mistakes like this in the past, not a big deal and don't let it get you down. There are plenty of great people in this hobby and a lot of them are right here on this board. It's gotten to the point where I buy a lot more through the B/S/T/ than I do on ebay.

Good luck with your future purchases & if you are in doubt there are a ton of knowledgeable & helpful people here on this board!

Good luck with your future purchases!

Scott

[Bigb13]

Wow Mike that is really nice it just shows the thère still are nice people in the world.

[iwantitiwinit]

Also maybe consider sticking with graded cards the chance of getting a fake are much less.

[buymycards]

Did you notice that the word "reprint" was scratched off of the bottoms of these cards?

[asoriano]

Originally Posted by buymycards

Did you notice that the word "reprint" was scratched off of the bottoms of these cards?

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

Donnie,

This is not a loss, you learned a valuable lesson and all you need to do is file a claim with Ebay. You will get your money back even if the seller tries to scare you away from that just file the claim ASAP as product not as advertised.
By the way, they are not fake but they are clearly reprints and he did advertise them as 1948s. It is possible he did not know the difference but I doubt it.

By the way.......I'll try and make your bad lesson a great one and try to win you back. I recently bought a lot of 1955 Bowman Baseball cards on here that included a Ralph Kiner card. I am waiting for them still but as soon as I get them in, I will mail you the REAL vintage 1955 Bowman Kiner for FREE. Not for the cost of the stamp or the postage or the actual card. I will send it for FREE. No strings. Just PM your name and address and realize that there are plenty of good folks out there.

Take care,

Peace, Mike

Mike solid move. Kudos to you sir!

[Mountaineer1999]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

Donnie,

This is not a loss, you learned a valuable lesson and all you need to do is file a claim with Ebay. You will get your money back even if the seller tries to scare you away from that just file the claim ASAP as product not as advertised.
By the way, they are not fake but they are clearly reprints and he did advertise them as 1948s. It is possible he did not know the difference but I doubt it.

By the way.......I'll try and make your bad lesson a great one and try to win you back. I recently bought a lot of 1955 Bowman Baseball cards on here that included a Ralph Kiner card. I am waiting for them still but as soon as I get them in, I will mail you the REAL vintage 1955 Bowman Kiner for FREE. Not for the cost of the stamp or the postage or the actual card. I will send it for FREE. No strings. Just PM your name and address and realize that there are plenty of good folks out there.

Take care,

Peace, Mike

Wow guys! Thanks for all the positive feedback! And MIKEY!!! That is an AMAZING gesture , you have totally changed my disposition tonight man!!! Just the fact that you offered means so much, Thank You!!!!!
I tell you what .... I'll take your Kiner if you let me buy it from you. The card will serve as a reminder going forward; #1 is for me to be more careful when bidding on EBAY and #2 - there are good people out there who care.

[KCRfan1]

Seller says 14 day returns, or do as others suggested and file a claim with ebay as the cards are reprints and not originals as seller advertised. I know as buyers we need to be educated so we know what we are buying, however the sellers need to do the same and know what they are selling ( and be honest about it ).

I would also recommend reviewing seller feedback, and see what other buyers say about the product received. That may give you insight to the type of seller you are dealing with and what to expect.

[Mountaineer1999]

Originally Posted by buymycards

Did you notice that the word "reprint" was scratched off of the bottoms of these cards?

I did not. As stated before, I am an idiot. I jumped the gun and didn't study the cards. I guess I share in the blame for being so naive. I couldn't sleep at night if I thought I cheated someone, so I am probably a little more trusting than I should be.

[clydepepper]

Since the seller did not specify 'reprints', you should be able to get your money back...if not from them (doubtful) then EBAY (probable). Let me know if you need assistance with that since I've had to go that route a few times.

[Jobu]

+1

Nice Mike! That is super solid.

I agree with the others, be happy it was a cheap, and returnable, mistake and use it for future motivation.

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

Mike solid move. Kudos to you sir!

[Mountaineer1999]

I've sent a message to the seller.... waiting on response. I will see what if anything they have to say and then go to Ebay tomorrow I guess.

Thanks again everyone.

[Sophiedog]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer1999

Wow guys! Thanks for all the positive feedback! And MIKEY!!! That is an AMAZING gesture , you have totally changed my disposition tonight man!!! Just the fact that you offered means so much, Thank You!!!!!
I tell you what .... I'll take your Kiner if you let me buy it from you. The card will serve as a reminder going forward; #1 is for me to be more careful when bidding on EBAY and #2 - there are good people out there who care.

Mike and Donny....2 Class Acts....Makes the Hobby Great!

[Bestdj777]

Donnie,

Please don't let it take you away from the hobby as we have all been ripped off at some point. When I first started collecting, I bought a Starliner Decal of Mantle with a certificate of authenticity saying it was from 1967. It wasn't. It took me a couple of years to realize I was mistaken and then I was out $20.00.

What is worse, a couple years before that (pre-Paypal days), I purchased a "Rolex" from a Canadian seller for around $130 (should have been my first sign). I filed a claim with eBay and got some of my money back through their buyer protection, which wasn't as good. I think I ended up out $30-40, which was a big deal for me at the time. What's worse, a year or two later I located the seller and wrote him an email explaining how I felt ripped off and taken advantage of. He offered to refund me my money if I returned the watch. I did, and no refund. So, not only was I out the money that eBay didn't cover but was also out international shipping.

I still collect watches and cards and love both hobbies. This board, in particular, makes me appreciate the hobby so much more.

Best of luck on getting a refund and on getting your real 48 Bowman!

[egbeachley]

They were not from 1948 and, therefore, not as described. If you keep them you are doing all of us a disservice by allowing another fraudulent transaction to take place.

[Econteachert205]

Agree with others that it should be refunded. We've all made similar mistakes...

[Mountaineer1999]

The seller has refunded the money and apologized. Said he was unaware the cards were reprints.


Thanks for all the input.... You guys have really turned my negative experience into a pretty positive night.

[cardsfan73]

Kudos to the seller for doing the right thing! Glad this worked out for you!

Scott

[Jantz]

Cut that Kiner reprint into pieces before you send it back.

You are the second person to buy reprints from them in a year.

If you send the card back to the seller whole, chances are there will be a third.


Jantz

[Mountaineer1999]

I never actually got the cards. I noticed from the pictures they were reprints after I paid but before he had shipped them out, so he still has them. I doubt he would be brave enough to put them back out there after telling me it was a mistake. With my track record though, what do I know. :-)

[Jantz]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer1999

I never actually got the cards. I noticed from the pictures they were reprints after I paid but before he had shipped them out, so he still has them. I doubt he would be brave enough to put them back out there after telling me it was a mistake. With my track record though, what do I know. :-)

I guess it worked out well then Donnie.

Give the seller some time. Those reprints will pop up again.

[Leon]

In my experience our big issues are also big learning experiences. Fortunately sometimes we can learn a lot from small issues too. If you are in this hobby long enough you will buy some bad cards. It happens. Hopefully it happens less the longer we collect. I have several personal examples in my office.

[Jay Wolt]

Glad it all worked out

[glynparson]

those really are not very good fakes though. you shuld go to a trusted seller like 707 or joe yanello and compare what they have for sale to the card you wish to buy. those super wide borders should have made you run instantly.

[steve B]

I'd bet we've all been there at one point or another.

The first show I ever went to I bought this



It was a whole dollar, which should give you an idea how long ago it was.(1978) At the time there were very few reprints and I hadn't heard of outright fakes. The place I hung out at let me know when I showed it to them. "It's fake, Wood isn't in the series of 120" darn.

I now know the cardstock is all wrong, the aging is very artificial, and even it wasn't fake it's trimmed. Why trim a fake? If you've got the equipment to print a fake surely you've got a papercutter too.........I've kept it as a reminder and as a curiosity. I've also never seen another or any similar ones that were as old.

Unless the money is enough to put you in a bind, (And if it is why are you spending that much on hobbies? ) The knowledge gained is usually worth more than you've lost. Buying the card above and finding out it was fake pushed me to buy the old sports collectors bible and the 1978 pre Beckett catalog/checklist book. It's been all downhill ever since

Steve B

[Section103]

Yay for the refund.

I have a pretty firm vow never to buy a listing typed in ALL CAPS. The correlation to scams is uncanny.

[Centauri]

I once paid $12 for a 52 Mantle, turned out it was fake. If anyone wants to send me free Mantles, PM for my address!

(Kidding aside, Mike is a good guy, and the forum in general has done a pretty cool job here.)

[Mountaineer1999]

Originally Posted by glynparson

those really are not very good fakes though. you shuld go to a trusted seller like 707 or joe yanello and compare what they have for sale to the card you wish to buy. those super wide borders should have made you run instantly.

I had never bought a Bowman anything and i was careless. Lesson learned... this is lesson #2, one more and I got this!

Originally Posted by Leon

In my experience our big issues are also big learning experiences. Fortunately sometimes we can learn a lot from small issues too. If you are in this hobby long enough you will buy some bad cards. It happens. Hopefully it happens less the longer we collect. I have several personal examples in my office.

I think I'm going to keep Mike's '55 Bowman Kiner framed and close by as a reminder to check everything before bidding.

Hey Steve. If you put that Joe Wood up for sale on EBay there is a good chance I'll buy it.

[ZachS]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer1999

Hey Steve. If you put that Joe Wood up for sale on EBay there is a good chance I'll buy it.

[WillowGrove]

Donnie great to see you were able to rise above the negative stuff in the hobby that eats away at the enjoyment of all of us.

Mike, great offer.

Good stuff.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer1999

Hey Steve. If you put that Joe Wood up for sale on EBay there is a good chance I'll buy it.

How about if I print the scans and glue them to a bit of a cereal box? It'll come out just about the same.

Imaging technology has come a long way and makes unconvincing fakes pretty easy.

Back when the wood was done someone had to have an original, photograph it with a special camera, make a plate and print them on a press. -The back may be rubber stamped, but still required an original.

Today it's a matter of finding an image online with at least decent resolution and printing it on something close to the original cardboard. I bought a 33 Goudey Ruth and Gherig that were reprints, but looked pretty good. Both showed flaws, like bad centering and registration, and they looked about the right thickness. In hand they were obvious to me, but I haven't tried them on my non-collecting friends. I'll probably frame them with a reprinted photo at some point to make a nice display.

The tipoff on the 48 Bowmans was the border size. Real ones have narrower borders than the reprints.

One set to keep an eye out for is a set done for a show in the 70's that are the size and look of 48 Bowmans but include players that weren't in the set. (Maybe ones that were too? I'm not sure) They're nice fantasy pieces and aren't particularly common.

Steve B

[vthobby]

Thanks for all the kudos. My Kiner came in today and will hit the mail Thursday for Donnie. Here is what it looks like if anyone was interested. 100% real and USA made all the way!

Peace, Mike

004.jpg

[Mountaineer1999]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

Thanks for all the kudos. My Kiner came in today and will hit the mail Thursday for Donnie. Here is what it looks like if anyone was interested. 100% real and USA made all the way!

Peace, Mike

Attachment 178742

Thanks Again Mike!!! Above and beyond buddy! This one will definitely always mean a lot.

[mets41]

I don't think there are as many crooks in our hobby as there are in politics.