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Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used > Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports

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  #1  
Old 12-12-2013, 10:40 AM
isaac2004 isaac2004 is offline
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Default Thoughts on a Cassius Clay

I came across this Cassius Clay and Sonny Liston auto. I am not familiar with Ali's Clay signatures and how much they are worth, but thought it was interesting.

Can anyone give some thoughts on this?
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File Type: jpg Clay VS Liston.jpg (71.2 KB, 220 views)
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  #2  
Old 12-12-2013, 10:57 AM
callou2131 callou2131 is offline
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I am no expert but The few that I have seen were not as shaky as that one.
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  #3  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:39 PM
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LOL! That is just precious.

I hope they're not asking a lot for it.
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:53 PM
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"Can anyone give me some thoughts on this"



Your seller:



The only guys possibly dumb enough to buy it:



Better way to invest your money:



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Last edited by Exhibitman; 12-12-2013 at 12:57 PM.
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  #5  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:55 PM
isaac2004 isaac2004 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D. Bergin View Post
LOL! That is just precious.

I hope they're not asking a lot for it.
Quite a large amount of money
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  #6  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaac2004 View Post
Quite a large amount of money

Can you post the link? I'd like to see it in it's natural environment.
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  #7  
Old 12-12-2013, 01:00 PM
isaac2004 isaac2004 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D. Bergin View Post
Can you post the link? I'd like to see it in it's natural environment.
Its not on ebay.. Its a seller I found local
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  #8  
Old 12-12-2013, 01:01 PM
callou2131 callou2131 is offline
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Is it just me or are those written in the same hand? I am really just starting to learn about sigs so please forgive my ignorance.
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  #9  
Old 12-12-2013, 04:10 PM
johnmh71 johnmh71 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
"Can anyone give me some thoughts on this"



Your seller:



The only guys possibly dumb enough to buy it:



Better way to invest your money:



lol. Too funny, but also accurate.
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  #10  
Old 12-12-2013, 08:09 PM
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That Liston is soooooo bad, he would never add an inscription to anything he signed.
When I start to see more and more of this kind of stuff I just feel that the bad guys have won this battle.
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaac2004 View Post
Quite a large amount of money
Is the amount a secret?
It would be a very large amount of money if real but it sure looks like it came straight out of CC.
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Last edited by RichardSimon; 12-12-2013 at 08:12 PM.
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardSimon View Post
Is the amount a secret?
It would be a very large amount of money if real but it sure looks like it came straight out of CC.
I don't think even Coach's Corner would try to get away with that one.
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  #13  
Old 12-13-2013, 08:57 AM
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This is so ridiculous it's not even funny. Liston in sharpie, that is funny.
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  #14  
Old 12-13-2013, 12:18 PM
isaac2004 isaac2004 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardSimon View Post
Is the amount a secret?
It would be a very large amount of money if real but it sure looks like it came straight out of CC.
He wanted over a grand for it.

I asked him question after question till he walked over his story (he claimed he got it in person) and then never got back to me
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  #15  
Old 12-13-2013, 12:55 PM
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That's all he wanted? Then he is a small time scam artist.
A real crooked pro would have asked for $5K at least
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Last edited by RichardSimon; 12-13-2013 at 12:56 PM.
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  #16  
Old 12-13-2013, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo View Post
This is so ridiculous it's not even funny. Liston in sharpie, that is funny.
FWIW, permanent ink markers were mass marketed as Magic Marker in the 1950s and the Sharpie itself came to market in 1964. Both Magic Marker and Sharpie permanent ink pens were in wide use during Liston's life [he died in 1970] so a signature from that era in permanent ink marker would not present an anachronism. The issue here is that Liston was illiterate and on the rare occasions he drew his name he did not add embellishments to it. The forgery the seller is trying to scam on is a bad copy of one of the ghost signatures that Mrs. Liston used to do for her husband. Looks to me like the forger modeled his effort on this Liston publicity photo that was used to respond to his mail requests in the 1960s, and which I believe is printed from a Mrs. Liston ghosted original:



The Clay is just atrocious.
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 12-13-2013 at 03:22 PM.
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  #17  
Old 12-13-2013, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
FWIW, permanent ink markers were mass marketed as Magic Marker in the 1950s and the Sharpie itself came to market in 1964. Both Magic Marker and Sharpie permanent ink pens were in wide use during Liston's life [he died in 1970] so a signature from that era in permanent ink marker would not present an anachronism. The issue here is that Liston was illiterate and on the rare occasions he drew his name he did not add embellishments to it. The forgery the seller is trying to scam on is a bad copy of one of the ghost signatures that Mrs. Liston used to do for her husband. Looks to me like the forger modeled his effort on this Liston publicity photo that was used to respond to his mail requests in the 1960s, and which I believe is printed from a Mrs. Liston ghosted original:



The Clay is just atrocious.
Thanks, but I am aware of that history. If you can show me a Liston signature in sharpie, I will eat my words. Preferably one that was not signed yesterday like this
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  #18  
Old 12-14-2013, 05:21 PM
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Jason, I'm not saying it is good, just that the pen itself doesn't make the signature bad [anachronism: a chronological inconsistency in some arrangement]. It is possible that Liston used a permanent ink marker at some point; it would be impossible for John L. Sullivan to have done so.
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  #19  
Old 12-14-2013, 06:31 PM
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I've only seen one authentic inscribed Sonny Liston in my life , Was part of a boxing collection I bought in London, that was signed in-person for the collector I bought it from. It was about a four line inscription written in BLOCK LETTERS ,

The collector who was known to Sonny and his handlers requested Sonny inscribe the photo to him. He was told to "Write Down" what he wanted Liston to write , he did and then was told to PRINT IT. Liston then just copied what he had printed and signed the photo.

Even the printing was a mess. I remember being told it was a very uncomfortable & embarrassing experience as The Bear hulked and labored over it for what seemed like forever.
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Old 12-14-2013, 09:14 PM
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Sorry for barking at you. I just think it's funny that someone even posts this for evaluation. It makes me wonder if the now banned boxing guru would have been able to give an opinion on this before going off on JSA or PSA about Liston signatures.
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Old 12-15-2013, 12:15 PM
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No problem; we both had a good laugh at the audacity of this seller.
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Old 12-15-2013, 02:44 PM
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delete
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Last edited by RichardSimon; 12-15-2013 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 12-15-2013, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo View Post
Sorry for barking at you. I just think it's funny that someone even posts this for evaluation. It makes me wonder if the now banned boxing guru would have been able to give an opinion on this before going off on JSA or PSA about Liston signatures.
I always laugh/cry seeing the horsesh-- stuff that this hobby has been reduced to.
Always good for a laugh and a cry.
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Last edited by RichardSimon; 12-15-2013 at 02:44 PM.
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