1964 topps tatoos shill bidding galore bassik and morris

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by glynparson

but if you contacted me to sell me something off eBay based on my eBay bids and I did not know you, i would tell you to go pound sand but not in such a nice way.

When I sold a lot of cards on eBay I was always contacting other members to try to sell an extra card or buy one out of a lot someone outbid me on. I sold way more cards off eBay than through eBay. I still do it to buy cards once in a while. If a super rare error pops up on eBay that I want I instantly message the seller and ask if they will pull the card off eBay and sell it directly to me. The bad part is usually a fellow board member here has beat me to it.

That is funny glynparson, in the thousands of people I contacted not a single one responded like you said you would.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by bnorth

When I sold a lot of cards on eBay I was always contacting other members to try to sell an extra card or buy one out of a lot someone outbid me on. I sold way more cards off eBay than through eBay. I still do it to buy cards once in a while. If a super rare error pops up on eBay that I want I instantly message the seller and ask if they will pull the card off eBay and sell it directly to me. The bad part is usually a fellow board member here has beat me to it.

That is funny glynparson, in the thousands of people I contacted not a single one responded like you said you would.

..........and if you offered a card to an underbidder in an auction you had nothing to do with, and they didn't respond to you.........you would assume they were a shiller?............because that's what this thread seems to be about.

[vintage954]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

..........and if you offered a card to an underbidder in an auction you had nothing to do with, and they didn't respond to you.........you would assume they were a shiller?............because that's what this thread seems to be about.

I don't think that's what he just said, but nice try

[nolemmings]

C'mon Dave, you know better than that. Larry apparently knows how to crack the ebay security system for protecting bidder's ID's, but he uses this power not for any self-serving purposes but instead to protect the hobby from evil-doers. He only contacts the underbidders to see if they're "real" and if they do not respond, well then, you've got your answer now, don't you. We should be grateful for this tireless and thankless pursuit.

Seems to me we all should pitch in and lend a hand. If Larry would just share with us how to see the bidders' identities we all could take turns monitoring against shill bidding and "out" the shillers' IDs. Together we may even help stop the practice altogether. Although our collective sleuthing abilities are likely not as refined as Larry's, we can at least each do our part.

[ALR-bishop]

Originally Posted by bnorth

If a super rare error pops up on eBay that I want I instantly message the seller and ask if they will pull the card off eBay and sell it directly to me. The bad part is usually a fellow board member here has beat me to it.

:

This would be another interesting and potentially controversial topic

[glynparson]

Not one person thought you were a possible scammer. BS. Blow smoke somewhere else. I would especially be suspicious with the current system. Sorry I do not like to be scammed,and I gaurantee I am not the only one. What you explain also violated the agreement you made with Ebayglad to know you honor your agreements so well.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by glynparson

Not one person thought you were a possible scammer. BS. Blow smoke somewhere else. I would especially be suspicious with the current system. Sorry I do not like to be scammed,and I gaurantee I am not the only one. What you explain also violated the agreement you made with Ebayglad to know you honor your agreements so well.

Who or what are you referring to?

[jhs5120]

A few items I've notice while reading this thread:
1. Shill bidders are difficult to spot. 95% with >150 bid retractions doesn't necessarily mean a shill bidder. It's clear to me (after reading Greg's post) that the bidder in question wasn't a shill bidder.
2. There is no mercy on this forum. Several members have grabbed their pitchforks and torches and put Greg in a hot spot with a very good customer. Even after this, members are still firing away.
3. Apparently we can contact under bidders... who knew?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

A few items I've notice while reading this thread:
1. Shill bidders are difficult to spot. 95% with >150 bid retractions doesn't necessarily mean a shill bidder. It's clear to me (after reading Greg's post) that the bidder in question wasn't a shill bidder.
2. There is no mercy on this forum. Several members have grabbed their pitchforks and torches and put Greg in a hot spot with a very good customer. Even after this, members are still firing away.
3. Apparently we can contact under bidders... who knew?

4. People actually collect 1964 Topps Tattoos

[Harliduck]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

4. People actually collect 1964 Topps Tattoos

Haha...I'm sorry but that is the best post on this entire thread...

[ALR-bishop]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

4. People actually collect 1964 Topps Tattoos

Hey, I have a set :-), and for what they are apparently selling for maybe you should have.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

A few items I've notice while reading this thread:
1. Shill bidders are difficult to spot. 95% with >150 bid retractions doesn't necessarily mean a shill bidder. It's clear to me (after reading Greg's post) that the bidder in question wasn't a shill bidder.
2. There is no mercy on this forum. Several members have grabbed their pitchforks and torches and put Greg in a hot spot with a very good customer. Even after this, members are still firing away.
3. Apparently we can contact under bidders... who knew?

I do agree shill accounts are hard to spot because there are several reasons(excuses) that could make them a real bidder with strange bidding habits. Here are a few random bidding histories off eBay that seem strange that could be real accounts. I only copied one side so they can not be traced back to the high volume sellers they were copied from.

I also think shilling with the high volume low eBay fee sellers does not need to be done in the same way as regular sellers. With regular sellers the eBay fees would add up quick and make shilling not as profitable without bidding up to the max and retracting bids. Now the high volume sellers have very low eBay fees and any increase in the bidding is a win for them. So shilling up the to the max and retracting the bid is not the only way shilling is done.

I want to make it clear I am not calling anyone a shiller in this post just posting what I would call strange bidding patterns from different high volume sellers.

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 6036
Items bid on: 3307
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 76% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0
This person has a feedback of 47

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 1718
Items bid on: 313
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 74% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0
This person has a feedback of 690


30-Day Summary
Total bids: 432
Items bid on: 336
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 100% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0
This person has a feedback of 87

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 176
Items bid on: 157
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 100% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 1
This person has a feedback of 391


30-Day Summary
Total bids: 1156
Items bid on: 918
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 99% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0
This person has a feedback of 366

[Harliduck]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Hey, I have a set :-), and for what they are apparently selling for maybe you should have.

I think you may be right...haha...

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I do agree shill accounts are hard to spot because there are several reasons(excuses) that could make them a real bidder with strange bidding habits. Here are a few random bidding histories off eBay that seem strange that could be real accounts. I only copied one side so they can not be traced back to the high volume sellers they were copied from.

I also think shilling with the high volume low eBay fee sellers does not need to be done in the same way as regular sellers. With regular sellers the eBay fees would add up quick and make shilling not as profitable without bidding up to the max and retracting bids. Now the high volume sellers have very low eBay fees and any increase in the bidding is a win for them. So shilling up the to the max and retracting the bid is not the only way shilling is done.

I'd like to know what these "very low Ebay fees" you are referring to are, beyond the standard 20% discount TRS sellers get.

What I see are these guys working on very tiny margins, compared to what most auction houses have to work with. I don't know how they do it without going into the red, to be honest, especially after the last Ebay fee increase that drove a few guys out of consignments entirely.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I'd like to know what these "very low Ebay fees" you are referring to are, beyond the standard 20% discount TRS sellers get.

What I see are these guys working on very tiny margins, compared to what most auction houses have to work with. I don't know how they do it without going into the red, to be honest, especially after the last Ebay fee increase that drove a few guys out of consignments entirely.

I honestly do not have a clue what the fees are. I will use Probstein123 as an example. I can consign my cards through his service for less than I can list them for myself. He not only pays an employee to list and ship the cards but also has to have a place to store them. So I really doubt he like other super high volume sellers only get 20% off listing fees.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I'd like to know what these "very low Ebay fees" you are referring to are, beyond the standard 20% discount TRS sellers get.

What I see are these guys working on very tiny margins, compared to what most auction houses have to work with. I don't know how they do it without going into the red, to be honest, especially after the last Ebay fee increase that drove a few guys out of consignments entirely.

Ebay's "emerging verticals" customers typically receive better FVF pricing than the standard 20% discount. Sellers like PWCC, Probstein (likely now), battersbox, 4SC/NESC, etc. are part of this program. Some of the sellers who participate are the sellers who have their company logo appear beneath each item in the ebay search lists/screens. All of the sellers above do a minimum of $1M in annual sales, so that is likely a threshold for this program.

A friend of a friend, who oversees the emerging verticals of another ebay category, mentioned to me that the sellers noted above are part of the program and, without any specifics, told me that they do receive some sort of added discount(FVF).

The apparent theory of this program is top down approach designed to help grow various ebay categories by allowing the larger sellers to drive the growth.

Here is a link to an older article concerning this program(however, it mentions that Probstein is not receiving a discount).
http://www.ecommercebytes.com/cab/abn/y12/m08/i29/s01

To get an idea of what someone in this position does for ebay, here is a job description of an emerging verticals intern:

http://jobs.ebaycareers.com/san-jose...tern-ebay-jobs

[the 'stache]

Wow, I just don't understand how anybody gets that many bid retractions. Now granted I don't have the volume of activity on Ebay that some people do, but I've got an Ebay feedback score of 265 with every single win having positive feedback. And I've probably had another 100 + auctions that I've bid on, but did not win. And I've never had a single bid retraction. If I bid on something, it is with the understanding that I am making a financial commitment to pay a specified amount.