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  #1  
Old 04-19-2018, 06:30 PM
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Default It all comes down to color

In the plain old white border version, this is maybe a $300-or a little more.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-Topps-...vip=true&rt=nc
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Old 04-20-2018, 07:49 AM
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Nice manufactured value.
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Old 04-20-2018, 08:04 AM
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Yep color makes a huge difference in price. I need a "red" bordered version to complete a rainbow. It is the /5 version and there is one on eBay now for about 2X what I paid for the 1/1 and one of the printing plates. Because of the manufactured rarity and the fact I may never see one again I am considering just paying the outrageous asking price.
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Old 04-20-2018, 08:06 AM
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Precisely why I do not collect modern.
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  #5  
Old 04-20-2018, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
Yep color makes a huge difference in price. I need a "red" bordered version to complete a rainbow. It is the /5 version and there is one on eBay now for about 2X what I paid for the 1/1 and one of the printing plates. Because of the manufactured rarity and the fact I may never see one again I am considering just paying the outrageous asking price.
Sorry but try saying that to someone unbeknownst to our affliction and they might LOL. I would say that with that statement you have been rightfully ensnared in a scam marketing ploy (to me).
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Old 04-20-2018, 08:37 AM
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Alert! Irony overload! Irony overload!

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  #7  
Old 04-20-2018, 09:21 AM
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Each year I get the Toops base set and any update to keep my run going. I also do the Topps Heritage "master set" each year, but that's it. So I am unfamiliar with most of the bells and whistle cards, their scarcity and value, except what I read here or on CU. I am often amazed by some of the prices paid, like this one.

Not sure I will make it to see, but wonder what cards like this will sell for in twenty years. Clearly some modern card collectors have money to spend on the hobby. Maybe they are speculators rather than collectors, but if so they seem to be daring speculators.
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Old 04-20-2018, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
Yep color makes a huge difference in price. I need a "red" bordered version to complete a rainbow. It is the /5 version and there is one on eBay now for about 2X what I paid for the 1/1 and one of the printing plates. Because of the manufactured rarity and the fact I may never see one again I am considering just paying the outrageous asking price.


Ben- why not just send me the money...I mean...I won't offer you anything in return...I just think it would be a better deal...and at least one of us would be happy.

DANGER, WILL ROBINSON! DANGER!
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  #9  
Old 04-20-2018, 03:12 PM
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I'm not so sure these retail exclusives are manufactured rarity.
They aren't numbered, but are a version only offered by one retail chain and only at retail, usually in a specific product.

Because of that, I'd think that a fair number will have been bought by people who don't stick with collecting. So - low production, limited distribution, and probably a lower survival rate.
I see them more like some of the old regional issues.

Would I pay that big of a premium even if I could? Probably not. Does the presence or absence of an "exclusive" affect which sort of pack I buy at Target or Wherever? Yep, it sure does.

( I personally dislike the whole "manufactured rarity" downplaying, there's so many deliberately rare cards throughout the history of cards that saying it's a modern scam is to me a bit silly. )
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  #10  
Old 04-21-2018, 08:57 AM
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Me and my super nerdy friends have gotten together and determined that your super nerdy way of collecting isn't cool, like our way. Our super nerdy way of collecting is the coooooolest. So you've been warned. Correct your collecting habits or become victim to the full wrath and force of our super cool nerdy way. We hang out down by the rock fence and our friend Jerry once even took a drag of a cigarette so you know we mean business. Also, from now on, you have to call Leon "General Zod" from now on and you have to call Clyde "Golden Eagle Fang Warrior."

You can't see but I just stuck my hand out to shake yours and then pulled it back before you could touch it.

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  #11  
Old 04-21-2018, 09:31 AM
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No one is telling you how to collect. We are merely saying that manufactured rarity is a marketing scam. If you and your nerdy friends buy into it more power to you. So you can call me General Zod all you want to. You can pull your handshake back too. Do you feel better now? I wish you and all of your nerdy friends the best of luck in your collecting. You seem like a real happy guy.

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Originally Posted by HasselhoffsCheeseburger View Post
Me and my super nerdy friends have gotten together and determined that your super nerdy way of collecting isn't cool, like our way. Our super nerdy way of collecting is the coooooolest. So you've been warned. Correct your collecting habits or become victim to the full wrath and force of our super cool nerdy way. We hang out down by the rock fence and our friend Jerry once even took a drag of a cigarette so you know we mean business. Also, from now on, you have to call Leon "General Zod" from now on and you have to call Clyde "Golden Eagle Fang Warrior."

You can't see but I just stuck my hand out to shake yours and then pulled it back before you could touch it.

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  #12  
Old 04-21-2018, 10:05 AM
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No, you're not telling anyone how to collect, you're simply telling people that the way they choose to collect is less legitimate than the way you choose to collect. We're grown men collecting baseball cards; anyone that believes there's a hierarchy or scale of legitimacy has delusions of grandeur.
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Old 04-21-2018, 10:30 AM
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Apparently, you have a difficult time understanding the concept of a discussion of a rare card that wasn't made to be rare versus one that was manufactured that way to begin with. If that is what you want to collect it is legitimate, have at it and have fun. I am happy to help you understand my real view each time.

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No, you're not telling anyone how to collect, you're simply telling people that the way they choose to collect is less legitimate than the way you choose to collect. We're grown men collecting baseball cards; anyone that believes there's a hierarchy or scale of legitimacy has delusions of grandeur.
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  #14  
Old 04-21-2018, 11:40 AM
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Please explain how it is a empirical scam and not just your opinion.
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Old 04-21-2018, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HasselhoffsCheeseburger View Post
Please explain how it is a empirical scam and not just your opinion.
Have fun collecting whatever you want to, I am back to the vintage side. Good luck in the quest.

BTW, in retrospect, "Scam" was not a good word for me to use to describe the rarity. It is fully transparent and is not a scam in any sort of way, actually. It is the marketing I don't care for, I guess....but again, if folks enjoy it I think it's great (seriously). And there were these kinds of situations in earlier vintage too ie...1933 Lajoie. and others.
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Old 04-21-2018, 12:24 PM
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That's what I thought.
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  #17  
Old 04-21-2018, 04:04 PM
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Now you two can shake hands and.... wait.... never mind
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  #18  
Old 04-22-2018, 06:02 AM
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My apologies to the OP and everyone reading the thread. I can't stand message board drama but if there's one thing that I can't stand even more than that is someone making fun of a collector for who/what/how/why they collect. This was even more bizarre than usual as the person believed it was somehow a proven fact and not his opinion.

The irony is that he collects prewar, where thousands upon thousands of dollars are the difference because they spelled the player's last name wrong or the ad on the back is different or, the ultimate, the card is severely miscut or there's a severe print defect. It's all the same, folks. There's no such thing as earned rarity when another find could be right around the corner.

But really, it's just about civility. How much of an elitist snob do you have to be to just walk right into a situation blind and crap all over what someone else collects? Talk about a grossly distorted sense of self-importance.

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  #19  
Old 04-22-2018, 07:34 AM
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Again? Really? No one is telling anyone what or how to collect.. We were having a discussion about regular rarity and manufactured rarity (it is still manufactured rarity whether you think so or not.) Where does anyone tell anyone how to collect? I suggest you take some reading comprehension classes and study hard because you can't comprehend that no one is being elitist except you. All in your head, made up right here in front of our eyes. It is people like you that conjure up a whole lot of imaginary stuff so you can feel like you are protecting others on the internet. Give me a break...
You are the one that is putting all of this BS out here, it is all in your imagination and not anyone else's. It is ALL YOU. I think you are living in Bizarro World .



Quote:
Originally Posted by HasselhoffsCheeseburger View Post
My apologies to the OP and everyone reading the thread. I can't stand message board drama but if there's one thing that I can't stand even more than that is someone making fun of a collector for who/what/how/why they collect. This was even more bizarre than usual as the person believed it was somehow a proven fact and not his opinion.

The irony is that he collects prewar, where thousands upon thousands of dollars are the difference because they spelled the player's last name wrong or the ad on the back is different or, the ultimate, the card is severely miscut or there's a severe print defect. It's all the same, folks. There's no such thing as earned rarity when another find could be right around the corner.

But really, it's just about civility. How much of an elitist snob do you have to be to just walk right into a situation blind and crap all over what someone else collects? Talk about a grossly distorted sense of self-importance.

Arthur
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  #20  
Old 04-22-2018, 08:15 AM
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Honestly, I see no differences between modern "intentional" rarities and some older ones like the 1933 Goudey Lajoie.
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  #21  
Old 04-22-2018, 08:26 AM
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But every year its a red border this, pink border that. In 20 yrs Trout may have 20 rare border 1/1 cards out there and you will have to explain / remind people why yours is the best. Meanwhile the 33 Lajoie will need no explanation. But im not hating. Collect what you want, just seems risky to me.

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  #22  
Old 04-22-2018, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Again? Really? No one is telling anyone what or how to collect.. We were having a discussion about regular rarity and manufactured rarity (it is still manufactured rarity whether you think so or not.) Where does anyone tell anyone how to collect? I suggest you take some reading comprehension classes and study hard because you can't comprehend that no one is being elitist except you. All in your head, made up right here in front of our eyes. It is people like you that conjure up a whole lot of imaginary stuff so you can feel like you are protecting others on the internet. Give me a break...
You are the one that is putting all of this BS out here, it is all in your imagination and not anyone else's. It is ALL YOU. I think you are living in Bizarro World .
In fairness, you went back and edited all of your posts to make it seem like I conjured this all up (your new claim against me). Which, let's face it, is a pretty cowardly thing to do. You changed tone, terminology, and overall points. How insecure to you have to be to go back and do that? There's obviously no point in having a discussion with you so I'll lay this to bed.

For everybody else, collect what you like and don't be afraid to share it. Most of us appreciate the stories behind the cards more than the cards themselves anyway. There's a lot more good guys in this hobby than there are elitist pricks, remember that.

Arthur
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Old 04-22-2018, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hxcmilkshake View Post
But every year its a red border this, pink border that. In 20 yrs Trout may have 20 rare border 1/1 cards out there and you will have to explain / remind people why yours is the best. Meanwhile the 33 Lajoie will need no explanation. But im not hating. Collect what you want, just seems risky to me.

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It's definitely confusing. I can't keep up with it and that's probably one of the reasons why I don't collect the uber-modern stuff from the past 10-15 years. I don't think most people feel the need to explain why their cards are "the best" though, whether it's a Trout or a Lajoie.

Arthur
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Old 04-22-2018, 09:30 AM
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I just meant in 20 yrs, if you have those 2 cards for sale at a show, you will have to explain the significance of this card more times than you would have to on the Lajoie.

"Oh thats the redish border 1/1 from 2017, no not 2018, no not pink...its red..." just like you said hard to follow now in 20 yrs even more so

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  #25  
Old 04-22-2018, 09:33 AM
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Long diatribe deleted. Have fun collecting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HasselhoffsCheeseburger View Post
In fairness, you went back and edited all of your posts to make it seem like I conjured this all up (your new claim against me). Which, let's face it, is a pretty cowardly thing to do. You changed tone, terminology, and overall points. How insecure to you have to be to go back and do that? There's obviously no point in having a discussion with you so I'll lay this to bed.

For everybody else, collect what you like and don't be afraid to share it. Most of us appreciate the stories behind the cards more than the cards themselves anyway. There's a lot more good guys in this hobby than there are elitist pricks, remember that.

Arthur
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Old 04-22-2018, 10:03 AM
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I only collect post war with the exception of the Fleer 1923 set. I collect Topps, Fleer and Bowman set runs, and I add recognized hobby variations and recurring print defects to those sets.

Many expensive and scarce post war "variations" are in my view just unintended print defects, like the 52 Black star, the 57 Bakep, the 58 Herrer and 61 Fairly. Most such recurring print defects have no hobby recognition beyond a few sick, fixated collectors...like me

In addition to continuing to add the current Topps base sets and update sets to my run of sets, I have done all the Heritage sets in "master" form. For Heritage the hobby definition of a master set, unlike older Topps sets, does not include variations. I assume because almost all of such variations are intentional ( even though some would say the only true "variations" are cards intentionally changed by the manufacturer).

But, for Heritage I did do all the known variations through 2010. Starting in 2011 the sheer number of variations... red fish, blue fish, green fish...and the planned scarcity of some caused me to give up. Too expensive and time consuming, even for a fanatic like me.

But since I do not collect as much of the newer stuff I like to see threads in here discussing and posting pics of what is going on in the hobby today, particularly the odd stuff. And, I am utterly amazed at some of the prices being paid for scarce "chase" type cards today.

Last edited by ALR-bishop; 04-22-2018 at 10:27 AM.
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  #27  
Old 04-22-2018, 11:30 AM
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I suppose I'm probably right on the fringe. I've done searches for rookie cards of Sox players so I know just enough to make myself dangerous. I was basically just looking for Bowman Chrome autographs and, to me, it all got broken down into three groups -- the regular refractor (which usually has a print run of 500-750), the regular Chrome auto (no print run), and then all of the different colored cards.

I'd say, for the most part, the colored cards are niche. Most people are just looking for the base auto or a refractor auto. Or I'm projecting and I have no idea what I'm talking about. I'd say it's 50/50.

Arthur
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Old 05-15-2018, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
Yep color makes a huge difference in price. I need a "red" bordered version to complete a rainbow. It is the /5 version and there is one on eBay now for about 2X what I paid for the 1/1 and one of the printing plates. Because of the manufactured rarity and the fact I may never see one again I am considering just paying the outrageous asking price.
I couldn't take the pressure any longer and broke down and highly overpaid for the red /5 version to complete my first and probably only rainbow.

Here is a picture of the card, when it arrives i will post the entire rainbow together.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg jaynorth5.jpg (68.1 KB, 47 views)
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T210 Series 3 Ft Worth, looking for low end examples and especially ones with a Y shaped hole punch. I also have some extra T210's for trade.
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Old 05-15-2018, 01:14 PM
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Pssh, sticker autos are garbage. Fact.
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  #30  
Old 05-15-2018, 01:20 PM
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Reminds me when some white American Christians mocked Jamaican Rastafarians for following a black Jesus, and it was pointed out that Jesus looked nothing like their sandy blonde blue eye white version.
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Old 05-15-2018, 02:57 PM
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Is that a modern card on your uniform?!!?

Chill it down, boys. Smoke a bowl and look through a box of commons and remember, 50 years earlier, this



was this



And this guy:



has more fans than any of those baseball guys anyway.

In other words, it is all relative, so collect what you want and remember:



Junior says "relax and dufex on".
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