Where can/do we report "fake autograph" sellers?

[daves_resale_shop]

Originally Posted by toyman55

I think eBay has turned their eyes elsewhere when it comes to losing their profits. Like some of the authentication companies eBay is in business to make money not police those who list. I also see where when an autograph is sold that so many think is fake it is still subjective to it's validity. I have a Roy Campanella autograph I bought on ebay that this site gave a thumbs down to but I think is still real. I do feel as the rest of you that it is wrong for those who are blatantly forging autographs that it is a crime but I would rather have the police protecting us from harm and leaving this site to warn people when possible of fakes.

While I agree that local law enforcement has much bigger fish to fry then interrogating a local auctioneer for selling a forged mickey mantle 8x10, I also believe that it is incumbent upon law enforcement to investigate and stop those people who are forging on a massive scale (or peddling forgeries on a massive scale)... After all its not pennies that we are talking about its millions and millions of dollars... What's the difference between a skilled forger who manufacturers 1000 ruth autograph's sells them at $1000 per and the wall street tycoon who decides to steal $1,000,000 from a client in a ponzi scheme... not much I would say... theft is theft.

As for ebay... I do believe they are in business to make money & not police listers (which they do-just not always effectively), it is also in their best interest to have a sound reputation and protect their buyers... as I mentioned before, if you are in business for the long haul and not a quick buck it doesn't make sense to burn customers and lose future business...

here's one the closed last night... suspect at best and a bargain if real...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261155815188...84.m1436.l2649

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by travrosty

it's not hard to tell who is offering up the forgeries.

For you, maybe, but it's not about "telling," it's about proving before a judge and jury, which is a lot harder than many here seem to want to believe.

Originally Posted by daves_resale_shop

While I agree that local law enforcement has much bigger fish to fry then interrogating a local auctioneer for selling a forged mickey mantle 8x10, I also believe that it is incumbent upon law enforcement to investigate and stop those people who are forging on a massive scale (or peddling forgeries on a massive scale)... After all its not pennies that we are talking about its millions and millions of dollars... What's the difference between a skilled forger who manufacturers 1000 ruth autograph's sells them at $1000 per and the wall street tycoon who decides to steal $1,000,000 from a client in a ponzi scheme... not much I would say... theft is theft.

Agreed on all points, but what is the first step here, from a practical point of view? Local law enforcement needs actual, tangible, and irrefutible proof of something before taking prosecutorial steps. In these cases, that is very hard to gather.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

For you, maybe, but it's not about "telling," it's about proving before a judge and jury, which is a lot harder than many here seem to want to believe.



Agreed on all points, but what is the first step here, from a practical point of view? Local law enforcement needs actual, tangible, and irrefutible proof of something before taking prosecutorial steps. In these cases, that is very hard to gather.

http://www2.tbo.com/news/breaking-ne...d-b-ar-251553/

Law enforcement needs a complaint to investigate. As more than one individual indicated (by the tone of their voice and lack of concern), if I was not "the injured party" there was nothing they could do. When I asked if I had to purchase a forgery in order to make a complaint, I was told by one "That's silly. If you know that is fraudulent, and you purchased it anyway, what would your complaint be?" A Catch-22 that covers either ignorance or laziness.

Yet a pawn shop was able to get 19 agencies involved.

[Mr. Zipper]

Most of these local auction houses are in small towns. So think about the logistics of prosecuting this...

The local sheriff is going to arrest the auctioneer. Then what?

The local prosecutor -- probably a district attorney with a few, if any, ADAS, is going to make a case how? Fly in high priced experts to testify the signatures are bad. Then the defense is going to claim "I didn't know... someone consigned them."

Case over. Auctioneer is acquitted.

And the local DA just spent half of his annual budget flying in experts on a losing case.

Not gonna happen.

Education of buyers, and public shaming of exposed auction houses is the only thing that will work in my opinion.

[RichardSimon]

There have been far more criminals getting away with forging/selling crap then criminals who have been prosecuted or punished in some way.
BUT IT HAS HAPPENED.
We have printed stories here about it.
I did it once as I outlined earlier. I also testified in a criminal case against a store selling crooked forgeries. The store was visited by the curator of the Ted Williams Museum when he was visiting Nassau County, NY. He saw Williams autographs that he knew were forged. He went to the police dept. in Nassau County and they raided the store. I testified against the owner in a criminal pre trial hearing and the owner copped a plea before a trial.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

There have been far more criminals getting away with forging/selling crap then criminals who have been prosecuted or punished in some way.
BUT IT HAS HAPPENED.
We have printed stories here about it.
I did it once as I outlined earlier. I also testified in a criminal case against a store selling crooked forgeries. The store was visited by the curator of the Ted Williams Museum when he was visiting Nassau County, NY. He saw Williams autographs that he knew were forged. He went to the police dept. in Nassau County and they raided the store. I testified against the owner in a criminal pre trial hearing and the owner copped a plea before a trial.

Was that the Danny Dupchek case, Richard?

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

Was that the Danny Dupchek case, Richard?

Yes it was Steve. He was a piece of work.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

There have been far more criminals getting away with forging/selling crap then criminals who have been prosecuted or punished in some way.
BUT IT HAS HAPPENED.
We have printed stories here about it.
I did it once as I outlined earlier. I also testified in a criminal case against a store selling crooked forgeries. The store was visited by the curator of the Ted Williams Museum when he was visiting Nassau County, NY. He saw Williams autographs that he knew were forged. He went to the police dept. in Nassau County and they raided the store. I testified against the owner in a criminal pre trial hearing and the owner copped a plea before a trial.

Interesting. Were the charges for forgery or fraud or...? Did the owner admit signing them himself?

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

Interesting. Were the charges for forgery or fraud or...? Did the owner admit signing them himself?

I believe the specific charge was for forgery. I don't remember if the owner testified but one of the store employees was also a witness and he said that he saw actual forging taking place in the store.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by Deertick

http://www2.tbo.com/news/breaking-ne...d-b-ar-251553/

Law enforcement needs a complaint to investigate. As more than one individual indicated (by the tone of their voice and lack of concern), if I was not "the injured party" there was nothing they could do. When I asked if I had to purchase a forgery in order to make a complaint, I was told by one "That's silly. If you know that is fraudulent, and you purchased it anyway, what would your complaint be?" A Catch-22 that covers either ignorance or laziness.

Yet a pawn shop was able to get 19 agencies involved.

This is a great and hopeful story, but it is quite different from the cases of local auction houses discussed here for many reasons. I would be interested to know how much of the prosecution in this case was driven by PSA's cert being forged. That one is an easy one to prove.