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  #21  
Old 07-25-2018, 09:56 PM
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vintagebaseballcardguy vintagebaseballcardguy is offline
R0b3rt Ch!ld3rs
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Thanks, Mike. Football around here would be way more fun if Morris can help us win more than 5! WPS!!
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Robert I don't think you could have explained any better for many of us! Go Hogs
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  #22  
Old 07-25-2018, 10:37 PM
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TanksAndSpartans TanksAndSpartans is offline
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Lots of great points - my favorite might be the one about baseball cards being a summer thing - I can totally relate to that as a kid - after dinner summer nights trading baseball cards on the curb while it was still light out - when football cards came out, it was time to go back to school.

One thing I don’t think was mentioned specifically - in my opinion in lots of areas of the country people are more passionate about college football than professional because they may not have a pro team in their area. Also, for anyone who went to a school where Saturday football was part of the experience, they may find a bond with that team that is hard to duplicate with a pro team. While the NCAA wasn’t around to stop the Mayo set or keep Bednarik, Walker, etc. out of the early Leaf sets, I don’t think a lot of college football card sets exist.

Last edited by TanksAndSpartans; 07-25-2018 at 10:38 PM.
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  #23  
Old 07-26-2018, 02:34 AM
mmier118 mmier118 is offline
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Great thread, and it seems like Iím a little late to the party, most of the reasons have already been touched on. I really think the shorter careers make a big difference. Quarterbacks seem to be doing quite well, from a hobby perspective, Andrew Luck had a big run, Rodgers cards still go for big money and Brady feels like heís almost reaching a Jordan like status. Derek carr went nuts last off season, and there is plenty of interest in Deshawn watson and now Pat mahomes. However Todd Gurley after his huge year sells for less than when he was a rookie, Leíveon Bell sells for dirt compared to his performance. Even guys like Ladainian Tomlinson, who was a beast canít hardly catch a bid. Defensive players are real soft too. I think baseball and basketball are very investment driven, people buying Mike Trout now have to be thinking those cards will increase in value. Basketball is even crazier! While in football the belief (rightfully so) is most of the hot rookies will fade away so there is very little investment driven speculation. I think that plays a pretty big part in the baseball card market.

I know this really doesnít have anything to do with the vintage market, but I also think we all started buying new cards and transitioned into vintage at some point. For football I donít see this happening quite as much. Part of it is that football fans arenít really into the history aspect of the game, like others mentioned the rules have changed quite a bit making old records not as relevant. Football doesnít have that marquee card like the T206 Wagner, or 1952 mantle. Also the investment aspect of vintage football isnít there, people have to remember stories like that old net54 thread where someone returned a mid grade psa 52 mantle so they could buy a Mayo Dunlop, talk about scaring people off from investing in vintage football cards. The return difference on those two cards has to be insane and not in the Dunlopís favor. Itís just little things like that that keep people away from vintage football. I know it influenced me when considering that Dunlop that was on eBay last summer. Iím sure others are in the same boat.

Iím just happy that the lower relative prices have allowed me to be able to put together some nice sets for a price I can afford. And it could always be worse. Football seems to be better off than hockey, and if you really want to know what inexpensive looks like, take a look at vintage tennis cards.
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  #24  
Old 07-26-2018, 07:34 AM
jefferyepayne jefferyepayne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anish View Post
I would collect football more if there were more Pre-War issues. Everything Post-War is easy to find but there are only a couple Pre-War sets and they are very expensive.

Also, other than Nagurski and Grange many of the big Pre-War names (Thorpe, Hutson, etc) don’t have mainstream cards that were made during their careers.
Great point about pre-war sets although there is lots more available if you expand your definition of a "card" to include RPPCs, premiums, inserts, cabinets, etc.

I can't agree that everything Post-War is easy to find. Mainstream sets? Mostly yes, but some of the regional and oddball sets are next to impossible to complete and provide a great challenge for the hardcore collector. Some of these include: 1950 Bread for Health, 1946 Sears Browns, 1961 National City Bank Browns, 1961 Golden Tulip, 1960 7-Eleven, 1968 Topps Test Team, 1969 Eskimo Pie, 1959 Bazooka, etc. Many of these sets have awesome pre-rookie cards of HOFers in them that makes looking for cards from these sets very enjoyable.

Completely agree about no mainstream (or even oddball in some cases!) cards being available pre-war. I use this as an opportunity to find and go after things related to cards that are fun to collect too. Things like advertisements, matchbooks, vintage photos, RPPCs (and other card-like things mentioned above). Once you get into those a little bit they can be as fun and as addictive as cards are.

jeff

Last edited by jefferyepayne; 07-26-2018 at 07:41 AM.
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  #25  
Old 07-26-2018, 07:47 AM
jefferyepayne jefferyepayne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagebaseballcardguy View Post
My only football collecting experience is '50s and '60s, but I know you and others on this board know prewar football. To your point about lack of availability, I believe it. I practically never see such items for sale...and I do look.
Good point, Robert. Lots of the very rare stuff changes hands behind the scenes from collector to collector without seeing the light of the auction day. Many times rare cards and things that do come up for auction have already been offered directly to a few hardcore collectors who have passed on them at the price offered.

There is a reason why many pre-war cards have no priced in VCP yet exist and change hands.

jeff
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  #26  
Old 07-26-2018, 08:53 AM
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Those of us who grew up in the heyday of MNF are also a bit spoiled. Like boxing fans who grew up on Ali-Frazier-Foreman-Norton. It doesnít get any better and whatever is next is a letdown.
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So... move out of your studio apartment! And try speaking to a real live woman, and GROW THE HELL UP! I mean, it's just baseball cards dammit, IT'S JUST BASEBALL CARDS!
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  #27  
Old 07-26-2018, 09:48 AM
skil55voy skil55voy is offline
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Default Football Card Collectors

All the points made so far are great. I think that part of the problem has to do with the media. The football "pundits" don't really talk about past players like the baseball reporters do. Baseball guys compare today's players to all of the past greats. Football guy compare today's players to each other. Without making this rather long I will site one example. Tom Brady is talked about for all his championships and that he sits in a great "system". His Super Bowl record is 5-3. Otto Graham was a "system" qb. In the 40's he won 5 championships with the upstart AAFC. When it folded the Browns and Rams were let into the NFL. Both teams made the championship game in 1950 which the Browns and Graham won. From 1946 through 1955, the Browns went to every championship with a record of 7-2. Of course the NFL does not recognize the AAFC statistics. And then there is Bart Starr..... Neither are talked about to the extent of Ted Williams, Koufax and other baseball players. And as we all know in the end, the "team" wins championships.
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  #28  
Old 07-26-2018, 12:11 PM
BillP BillP is offline
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My 2 cents: First off I think that some of the designs particularly late 60's early 70's were lackluster. Also in the 50's and 60's baseball featured sets that were 400-500+ in number allowing for more player representation. Football sets were limited to lower numbers and with team cards, 8-12 players out of 40 or so per team. I also think that in later sets, the fact that the card companies did not have the rights to have team logos on helmets and airbrushed them out added to the quality of the card. Don't get me wrong, I have several pre 70 football sets and enjoy them, it just the quality and effort didn't seem to be a main focus. I think the topps/opc hockey sets are better than the football output in these years. comments opinions welcome. billp
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  #29  
Old 07-26-2018, 02:57 PM
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TanksAndSpartans TanksAndSpartans is offline
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Default movies, video games, and books

Here's one I don't think has been mentioned - movies, video games, and books (The theory is that kids are impressionable and something like this could capture one’s imagination for a lifetime)

Off the top of my head I'll just list ones that could spark an interest in the historical aspect of the sport (theory being that most collectors start with current items i.e. "packs of this year's cards" and eventually get into older items)

Movies
Field of Dreams
The Natural

Games
Micro League Baseball (You could have Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Christy Mathewson, etc. on your team and they were good!)

Books
Casey at the Bat
Ted Williams Art of Hitting (not sure on exact title)

For Football, the only historical based movies I recall focus on college football - Rudy and one about Tennessee's Richmond Flowers (There is a Nagurski reference in a movie, but it wasn't a football movie). There was a video game, but it didn't come out until 2005. It's possible to stumble on books - but in my opinion, you don’t see as many - The Dr. Z chapter I read on Marion Motley as a kid was a huge influence on me, but I’m pretty sure I’m in the minority.

Probably lots I'm forgetting on both sides, but I think baseball wins on this. I can think of a kid on my street who said his favorite player was Babe Ruth - I'm not saying this was common, but I can't imagine it happening in football.

Last edited by TanksAndSpartans; 07-26-2018 at 03:07 PM.
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  #30  
Old 07-26-2018, 03:19 PM
Hot Springs Bathers Hot Springs Bathers is offline
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I think Madden football dwarfs all other sports games but I don't know if they offer any retro or historic options?
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