T206 Titus and Bliss *cancelled*

[Louieman]

Hey, looking to sell these cards, ideally together. The Jack Bliss has outstanding eye appeal, and the corners are excellent, but a little paper loss at the top of its back knocked it to a PSA 2. Initially I bought the Titus because he's the only 'stache in the set, but that sentiment wore off for me...still think it's an excellent card. Both are Piedmont 350, factory 25

Looking for $60 or best offer, pm if interested.

[Louieman]

Here are the backs as well

[bbcard1]

i'll take them if still available

[Sean1125]

I'm surprised no one told him the Titus is worth about $400.

[Gradedcardman]

It is now done !!

[ZachS]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

I'm surprised no one told him the Titus is worth about $400.

Yeah... I'm guessing he didn't research Titus-itis before posting this.

[bbcard1]

The seller withdrew the offer, so it goes. Reneged is another word, but it was probably a deal too good to be true.

For those who responded to the OP, that's cool, but I hope you consider your motives. Was it just because you missed out? I remember earlier this year there was a lot of Obaks posted here that were literally a couple of bucks each and TONS of competition for it but the seller ended up honoring his original price.

One of the reasons we collect is to get a good buy now and then...one on the order of 10-25% of the value of the card. It is not only reasonable but probably necessary because the course of the the hobby is that you will overpay for some things. When you spend a lot of time scouring boards, the reward for it is that sometimes you are first in and you offer a seller a price that he set that is too low.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

I'm surprised no one told him the Titus is worth about $400.

Possibly more. I think it looks better than the 3.5 in the recent goodwin and it has a realized price of $561.68:

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

For those who responded to the OP, that's cool, but I hope you consider your motives. Was it just because you missed out? I remember earlier this year there was a lot of Obaks posted here that were literally a couple of bucks each and TONS of competition for it but the seller ended up honoring his original price.

I was the one who ended up with the Lemke Obaks. Bob honored his price, and I think I came up with a decent solution to the dilemma of getting a steal on the lot...I put up a decent amount of them for auction on our BST, and then sent along the winning bid money on the lots to Bob...it didn't feel right depriving one of our own of some of the money he could have gotten for the lot.

If I had picked up the group on ebay (and I have gotten some great deals there)...no way would I do something similiar.

Brian

[Louieman]

Yep, sorry everyone, I took down the offer. A rookie mistake...I was completely unaware of Titus-itis. I'll try to be much more informed in the future before I do this thing again. My apologies for all the false hope

What do you mean by "took down the offer"? It still reads "looking for $60 or best offer" in your opening post. Pretty lame situation all around.

[pgellis]

Is it still available?

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

The seller withdrew the offer, so it goes. Reneged is another word, but it was probably a deal too good to be true.

For those who responded to the OP, that's cool, but I hope you consider your motives. Was it just because you missed out? I remember earlier this year there was a lot of Obaks posted here that were literally a couple of bucks each and TONS of competition for it but the seller ended up honoring his original price.

One of the reasons we collect is to get a good buy now and then...one on the order of 10-25% of the value of the card. It is not only reasonable but probably necessary because the course of the the hobby is that you will overpay for some things. When you spend a lot of time scouring boards, the reward for it is that sometimes you are first in and you offer a seller a price that he set that is too low.

Hopefully Leon sees this. I have no problem with him saying it's a rookie mistake and taking the cards back because of how much he would have lost, but he shouldn't be allowed to use the BST anymore. At least for a certain amount of time, since he did back out on a deal. Seems like a fair trade-off though. He keeps a pricey card, but as a new board member, he has a quick strike and without a track record, he should be done selling(personally I'd go for a certain time period while he can build up trust)

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by z28jd

Hopefully Leon sees this. I have no problem with him saying it's a rookie mistake and taking the cards back because of how much he would have lost, but he shouldn't be allowed to use the BST anymore. At least for a certain amount of time, since he did back out on a deal. Seems like a fair trade-off though. He keeps a pricey card, but as a new board member, he has a quick strike and without a track record, he should be done selling(personally I'd go for a certain time period while he can build up trust)

I think the strike should be on the members who fail to inform someone they are asking 10-20% of the value of something. I guess I hold the members of the board in a bit higher regard than I should? But alas, I am a broker and I do not not know what the word "fair" means according to some people.

[pgellis]

Geez, I wonder who bought it behind the scenes

[Louieman]

Ill take that. If I need to be exiled from the bst board for a while, that's fine. It really was a rookie mistake...I simply didn't know what I was getting into. I can just stick to posting in the main board and pm's for a while...sorry again...and ill try to edit the title

[Bestdj777]

The guy shouldn't be banned from the BST. It is not like he knew what he had and backed out of a deal. He had no clue what he had. We are a card collecting community on this board. We shouldn't be trying to force someone to take a $400 loss on this card. When he posted it, we should simply explain the mistake to him, educate him about the demand for the card, and give him the opportunity to list it at a fair price. The fact that someone said "I'll take it" before Sean mentioned the price shouldn't alter the analysis. And, I don't blame the person for saying I will take it but no one should expect or actually want the member to sell it at that price. If any of us made a mistake in a listing on here, we would want someone to notify us about it.

The amazing deals that are out there are one of the great things about collecting, but this isn't eBay or a fleemarket.

Just my two cents.

[scooter729]

+1 - well said. This is supposed to be a place to gain knowledge. We'd all like to make a good deal, but let's not pilfer from a community member who didn't know what he had.

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

The guy shouldn't be banned from the BST. It is not like he knew what he had and backed out of a deal. He had no clue what he had. We are a card collecting community on this board. We shouldn't be trying to force someone to take a $400 loss on this card. When he posted it, we should simply explain the mistake to him, educate him about the demand for the card, and give him the opportunity to list it at a fair price. The fact that someone said "I'll take it" before Sean mentioned the price shouldn't alter the analysis. And, I don't blame the person for saying I will take it but no one should expect or actually want the member to sell it at that price. If any of us made a mistake in a listing on here, we would want someone to notify us about it.

The amazing deals that are out there are one of the great things about collecting, but this isn't eBay or a fleemarket.

Just my two cents.

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by pgellis

Geez, I wonder who bought it behind the scenes

Me too, it wasn't me.

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

I think the strike should be on the members who fail to inform someone they are asking 10-20% of the value of something. I guess I hold the members of the board in a bit higher regard than I should? But alas, I am a broker and I do not not know what the word "fair" means according to some people.

+1

It's like many years ago a 12 year old kid purchased a mint 68 Nolan Ryan for $16 from a card store. The card was marked $1600. The kid knew this. He took advantage when the owner had his mom or someone watching the store. She knew nothing and thought the 1600 read 16.00.

I say he stole the card. I guess some of you see it as he got a good deal.

[pgellis]

So is it still available or did you decide to keep it?

[Louieman]

No I'm going to keep it for now and try to sell it once I'm more versed on this stuff

[gregr2]

I'm curious as to how you came about it...

[usernamealreadytaken]

There is good authority for those sticking up for the seller - it appears that he was unaware of his mistake as to value (approx. 1/10th) and pretty much any collector who would purchase knew or should have known of his mistake.

That said, I would be PISSED if someone posted a 1914 Cracker Jack Pratt for $300 and then avoided the deal because they didn't realize what they had . . . So it goes . . .

[pgellis]

Buy/Sell/Trade Areas
Posts offering to buy, sell, or trade items should be made in the appropriate Buy/Sell/Trade index. This includes posts for items appearing in on-line auctions such as eBay, Grand Slam Bids and auction houses etc... Buy/Sell/Trade threads in the wrong categories, or forums, will be moved or deleted. There should be no interference by 3rd parties within the Buy/Sell/Trade areas. Third parties are those not involved in a transaction. This includes, but is not limited to, posting current or historical cost information, commenting negatively on the offer or item, or anything that interferes with the listing in a negative way. Only persons involved in the transaction should post in the thread, however benign or favorable comments are generally permitted by third parties. If you don't know the difference between them, then please don't post. One exception is to expose fraudulent activity. It may always be posted in any thread, anywhere on the board, but you better have your ducks in a row and your name by your post when you report these misdeeds. “Caveat Emptor- Buyer Beware” to all members. Each member uses the board at their own risk. Net54baseball does not monitor, and is not responsible for, transactions. Our sole recourse, in a punitive manner is suspension or banishment from the board. The Uniform Commercial Code of Law of the United States applies. We will work with authority’s when/if the need arises. Please request references from your trading partners when they are not well known or you don’t know them. Whenever someone resists giving a reference, upon request, please contact the moderator as that is, many times, a red flag.

Once any transaction is completed in the Buy/Sell/Trade areas, or over with, that transaction shouldn’t be deleted. Specific pricing, or confidential information may be removed but the other information should stay. Items should be consolidated in the BST area, into one thread, when appropriate. In other words don’t list more than a few similar items in single threads, in the same BST area, at once. IF you do this, they will most likely be deleted and asked to be posted again in a consolidated fashion. You should not bump a BST thread to the top very often (every 3-4 days at most) as it is discourteous to other posters.

[Mountaineer1999]

Originally Posted by pgellis

Buy/Sell/Trade Areas
Posts offering to buy, sell, or trade items should be made in the appropriate Buy/Sell/Trade index. This includes posts for items appearing in on-line auctions such as eBay, Grand Slam Bids and auction houses etc... Buy/Sell/Trade threads in the wrong categories, or forums, will be moved or deleted. There should be no interference by 3rd parties within the Buy/Sell/Trade areas. Third parties are those not involved in a transaction. This includes, but is not limited to, posting current or historical cost information, commenting negatively on the offer or item, or anything that interferes with the listing in a negative way. Only persons involved in the transaction should post in the thread, however benign or favorable comments are generally permitted by third parties. If you don't know the difference between them, then please don't post. One exception is to expose fraudulent activity. It may always be posted in any thread, anywhere on the board, but you better have your ducks in a row and your name by your post when you report these misdeeds. “Caveat Emptor- Buyer Beware” to all members. Each member uses the board at their own risk. Net54baseball does not monitor, and is not responsible for, transactions. Our sole recourse, in a punitive manner is suspension or banishment from the board. The Uniform Commercial Code of Law of the United States applies. We will work with authority’s when/if the need arises. Please request references from your trading partners when they are not well known or you don’t know them. Whenever someone resists giving a reference, upon request, please contact the moderator as that is, many times, a red flag.

Once any transaction is completed in the Buy/Sell/Trade areas, or over with, that transaction shouldn’t be deleted. Specific pricing, or confidential information may be removed but the other information should stay. Items should be consolidated in the BST area, into one thread, when appropriate. In other words don’t list more than a few similar items in single threads, in the same BST area, at once. IF you do this, they will most likely be deleted and asked to be posted again in a consolidated fashion. You should not bump a BST thread to the top very often (every 3-4 days at most) as it is discourteous to other posters.

Rules are rules I suppose, but sometimes we have to empathize with the other person don't we?


Maybe the solution is to have a little more fair deal struck between the first two parties. Not market value but also not dirt cheap. Lets say 50% of the card value instead of 10%.
If I would have been the seller I would be sick about it and would try to work something out, if I couldn't work anything out I would go ahead with the sell as promised.
But if I were the buyer, I think I would understand the position of the seller and make some concessions. Maybe $200, that feels about right.

Just my 2-cents.

[ullmandds]

Funny how when I sold some purple E94's on the cheap a little ways back noone was screaming bloody murder. I guess it's only T206'!

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

I think the strike should be on the members who fail to inform someone they are asking 10-20% of the value of something. I guess I hold the members of the board in a bit higher regard than I should? But alas, I am a broker and I do not not know what the word "fair" means according to some people.

Well said, Sean.

Even though the rules (thanks Phil) state that no one should interfere in a transaction like so, I have no doubt that more than a handful of people would instead PM or email the seller about giving this card away...or at least I hope they would. I believe there are some unwritten rules when it comes to card collecting/selling...at least I believe there is.

I know the seller obligated himself by listing this card for a certain price, but I think it was an opportunity to help him out and not take him to the shed on the sale. I'd say he understands what happened here and won't make the same mistake again...hopefully.

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Funny how when I sold some purple E94's on the cheap a little ways back noone was screaming bloody murder. I guess it's only T206'!

How cheap was it, Pete? 10% of the current value? Maybe it wasn't as obvious as this Titus listing?

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

I think the strike should be on the members who fail to inform someone they are asking 10-20% of the value of something. I guess I hold the members of the board in a bit higher regard than I should? But alas, I am a broker and I do not not know what the word "fair" means according to some people.

How do you know people didn't inform him via PM? I've done that before on here for cards that were still for sale at least 4-5 times, but never for something that sold, because then you're interfering in a transaction. As someone pointed out, that's a main rule for the BST.

Looks like the card was sold within five minutes of it being listed, and since it was listed at 2am EST, I'm not sure how many people you would expect to give him a heads up in under five minutes at a crazy hour?

As far as learning his lesson, he did, he still has the card and will get a fair price. That shouldn't change the fact that he's a new board member with no selling track record and shouldn't be allowed to sell after backing out on a deal. I think there should be a good time limit set on when you can START selling on the board, which would give people time to learn things like this and give others a chance to trust them.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Funny how when I sold some purple E94's on the cheap a little ways back noone was screaming bloody murder. I guess it's only T206'!

the disparity in % may not have been as great...but the % of disappointed sellers was significant.

[ullmandds]

"If a tree falls in the forest and noone sees or hears it...did it fall?"

If anyone of us finds a "steal" in a local flea market or antique shop..or even ebay sometimes....and then shows it here...kudos are distributed in grand fashion and noone claims the riot act and wants to contact the seller...but when it happens here...different story.

In this day and age...it is easy to do the research...it's simple as that!

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

"If a tree falls in the forest and noone sees or hears it...did it fall?"

If anyone of us finds a "steal" in a local flea market or antique shop..or even ebay sometimes....and then shows it here...kudos are distributed in grand fashion and noone claims the riot act and wants to contact the seller...but when it happens here...different story.

In this day and age...it is easy to do the research...it's simple as that!

That's true Pete, but I always consider this to be a more friendly type community. When I meet fellow members at card shows, I like to be able to hold my head up high and know that I have always been fair and honest.

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

"If a tree falls in the forest and noone sees or hears it...did it fall?"

If anyone of us finds a "steal" in a local flea market or antique shop..or even ebay sometimes....and then shows it here...kudos are distributed in grand fashion and noone claims the riot act and wants to contact the seller...but when it happens here...different story.

In this day and age...it is easy to do the research...it's simple as that!

Some people tend to look after each other here...eBay is more of an independent selling area, but I guess you can look at it any way that you would please. If he was selling the Titus for $200 I would have no problem with it, but selling it for pennies kind of disturbs me somewhat.

I'm not hating on either side of this situation, but just giving my opinion on the matter. If you think it's bs that he reneged on the sale, so be it...it doesn't hurt my feelings

[ullmandds]

Hey...i'm just playing devils advocate here...I don't really have a beef either way...it just seems oftentimes there is a double standard.

Additionally I feel that the evergrowing culture of renegging has become so commonplace...that all accountability is being lost. And without this...civility is lost!

Nothing "bliss" ful about this thread!

[bbcard1]

This is not a raw card that the seller inherited from his great grandfather, and I'm not sure it would matter if it was. It is something the he had bought and got tired of and decided to sell. He should have some idea of what he paid for it and was happy with the price he was selling if for...His email to me was "You've got it." I am quite comfortable with the ethics of paying a person who comes on a Buy Sell Trade board and makes the conscious decision to sell his cards with or without research his full asking price. If this person is mentally disabled or senile, I would feel differently.

When I owned a store or was a dealer, I felt obligated to pay people who brought their cards into my shop a fair market, which at that time, believe it or not, was 50% or more. If I walk into a show or a shop and someone has something priced cheaply I feel no remorse in buying it and I doubt anyone else would so long as it is not mis-priced. I see this board pretty much as if it were a show and the people who post have made a conscious decision to be dealers.

[tiger8mush]

in the OP's defense, his original posted said something along the lines of "$60 or best offer".

Did he officially accept a person's offer? If he's getting $200+ offers and hasn't accepted one yet, perhaps all is fine. True, usually "or best offer" means something below the asking price, but in this case its higher than the price. Just some food for thought, carry on

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

...His email to me was "You've got it."

woops, was writing my post as you posted ... that answers my question then

[team-of-rivals]

How difficult is it to check sold listings on eBay? No matter the side you stand on in this situation, it all comes down to the integrity of the seller. It wasn't a matter of mistyping the price, it was a lack of simple common sense and thirty seconds of research.
Many of you are moaning about this being an educational forum, yadda, yadda.....I agree. What better education/lesson learned than an 'ass-kicking' on a sale....?

[JohnP0621]

I hope that this seller has the same Morals and Contacts the Seller that he bought it from and shares the Profits once he sells the card.I am sure that he bought the card for Less or as much as he was going to sell it for. I dont think that he was going to Loose Money on the Sale.

John P

[pgellis]

Come on, this is not like grandma coming on here with a box full of her late husband's cards that included Wagner, Plank, Doyle, etc. and sold them to the first person who offered her $100.

This is a person who by his own introductory post the other day said,

"Got my first tobacco card at 12, next at 16, a few more at 20, and been on the hunt pretty actively since I turned 24 (I'm 27 now...dad is still at it, going to be 91 in December)."

So he knows enough about tobacco cards that he isn't a total newbie. He could look on eBay or CardTarget for current pricing, but he didn't. I'm sure he didn't "lose" money on the deal, meaning, I'm sure he sold it for as much or more than he originally paid for it.

Obviously, he was unaware of the Titus phenomenon....., but he did agree to the sale. Integrity is something that is hard to earn back. If I made the same mistake, I would honor the deal. It may be worth more than a couple hundred bucks.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by JohnP0621

I hope that this seller has the same Morals and Contacts the Seller that he bought it from and shares the Profits once he sells the card.I am sure that he bought the card for Less or as much as he was going to sell it for. I dont think that he was going to Loose Money on the Sale.

John P

Exactly, good point. No one is going to randomly dump cards for less than they paid unless they didn't sell for awhile. I'd like to hear how much the person he bought the cards from is going to receive from the eventual sale...

[veleno45]

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

The guy shouldn't be banned from the BST. It is not like he knew what he had and backed out of a deal. He had no clue what he had. We are a card collecting community on this board. We shouldn't be trying to force someone to take a $400 loss on this card. When he posted it, we should simply explain the mistake to him, educate him about the demand for the card, and give him the opportunity to list it at a fair price. The fact that someone said "I'll take it" before Sean mentioned the price shouldn't alter the analysis. And, I don't blame the person for saying I will take it but no one should expect or actually want the member to sell it at that price. If any of us made a mistake in a listing on here, we would want someone to notify us about it.

The amazing deals that are out there are one of the great things about collecting, but this isn't eBay or a fleemarket.

Just my two cents.

I agree completely.

[CMIZ5290]

I still have a PSA 6 Titus available for sale or trade....Thanks

[soxinseven]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

the disparity in % may not have been as great...but the % of disappointed sellers was significant.

The disparity in % was not even in the same ballpark. I responded first and that's why everyone else was disappointed. The prices were very fair but I doubt I could sell them for 8/10 times the purchase price. If anyone wants to offer me 8 to 10k for an SGC 30 Bates and an SGC 20 Evers let me know and I will have them in the mail tomorrow....

[t206trader]

I'm of the opinion that when someone agrees to a deal then that is a verbal contract. Having said that, I personally wouldn't have accepted the sellers offer without informing them of the value of their card. It's a tough situation for all. Still, to expect people not to talk to the seller about what the value of their card was is pretty foolish. I understand the forums rules but if someone came on here and sold a legitimate Honus Wagner for $100 do you think everyone would just stay quiet until the deal was done? Wishful thinking.

[CMIZ5290]

So much for Titus-itus.

[Nappy1525]

I and everyone else should know this is an honest mistake. For the people who are a little upset about this deal just think, what if you did this by mistake and lost $400 on a deal then get kicked off? All because of one mistake. Just before you get too upset just think you have no clue about anyone's financial situation. I'm not trying to get into an argument I just know that whoever is upset about this that if it happened to them they would never sell a card for that price.

[mrvster]

I would like to say I'm a little saddened by this post.....I feel for both seller and buyer.....I'm not perfect and have made mistakes in the past ......

I feel the seller is a newbie.....he is just getting used to T206.....let's not turn him off from the hobby and T206 because he made a "rookie" mistake.....he even put in his post that he bought it cause the stache.....lets give the guy a break on this one and give him a "pass"....

my apologies to the potential buyer for this post....I can understand your pain.........I know that doesn't help much.....I'm sorry you lost out on the card...



LET us keep fresh collectors entering the hobby some encouragement....

Johnny D does have some great points, and every one else....


But I'm a libra and a softee and say give him a pass on this one....


Seller.....if you ever want advice on T206....pm or email you, I will give you the best advice I can.....

Thanks everyone for listening....

[ZachS]

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

The guy shouldn't be banned from the BST. It is not like he knew what he had and backed out of a deal. He had no clue what he had. We are a card collecting community on this board. We shouldn't be trying to force someone to take a $400 loss on this card. When he posted it, we should simply explain the mistake to him, educate him about the demand for the card, and give him the opportunity to list it at a fair price. The fact that someone said "I'll take it" before Sean mentioned the price shouldn't alter the analysis. And, I don't blame the person for saying I will take it but no one should expect or actually want the member to sell it at that price. If any of us made a mistake in a listing on here, we would want someone to notify us about it.

The amazing deals that are out there are one of the great things about collecting, but this isn't eBay or a fleemarket.

Just my two cents.

Completely agree with this post.