NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
T206s on Ebay
Pre-WWII Cards
Post WWII Cards
Vintage Memorabilia
Babe Ruth Cards
Ty Cobb Cards
Lou Gehrig Cards
Mickey Mantle Cards
Goudey Cards
Bowman Cards
T205s on Ebay
Tobacco "T" Cards
Caramel "E" Cards
Vintage Baseball Postcards
Football Cards on Ebay
Exhibit Cards
Strip Cards
Baking Cards
Sporting News
Playball Cards on Ebay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 10-12-2019, 08:04 PM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 5,833
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by toppcat View Post
Not in salt water, they would be gone pretty quickly.
Maybe? The wax paper would probably seal it, and if I remember it right cellophane could last a long time, even in seawater.

Assuming it's true, which is debateable, I think it would be worth having a look.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 10-13-2019, 10:33 AM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 6,266
Default

Steve— you should write to James Cameron about taking this on as a follow up to The Titanic ... The Barge
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 10-13-2019, 11:59 AM
frankbmd's Avatar
frankbmd frankbmd is offline
Fr@nk Burke++
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Between the 1st tee and the 19th hole
Posts: 6,037
Default

You would think that one waterlogged Mantle would have made it to the Jersey shore or Long Island to verify the barge dump. He was young and likely an above average swimmer.
__________________
FRANK:BUR:KETT - RAUCOUS SPORTS CARD FORUM MEMBER, WHO STANDS BY MY IRON CLAD GUARANTEE.

I CAN SELL ANY BASEBALL CARD FOR LESS THAN YOU PAID FOR IT.

GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION


518/1000 Monster Number

Over*760* successful B/S/T transactions completed in 2012-19.
Over 550 sales with satisfied Board members served.
Thank you all.



Now nearly PQ.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 10-13-2019, 01:55 PM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 5,833
Default

The problem of course is that even if true, and even if the packaging protected the cards a bit, the barge company probably made it a habit of offloading in roughly the same area, and probably did so into the 60's if not later.

So the cards will be under at least a decades worth of other "stuff"
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 10-13-2019, 06:43 PM
Volod Volod is offline
Steve
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NEOH
Posts: 800
Default "...other stuff"

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
The problem of course is that even if true, and even if the packaging protected the cards a bit, the barge company probably made it a habit of offloading in roughly the same area, and probably did so into the 60's if not later.

So the cards will be under at least a decades worth of other "stuff"

I wonder how many species of marine worms and other bottom feeders would see waxpaper and pasteboard as a veritable feast from above?
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 10-15-2019, 09:25 AM
T.S. OConnell T.S. OConnell is offline
member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 8
Default Re: 1952 Topps eight-pack and 1960 ocean dump

I read these posts with some interest, initially because I wondered why the cellophane-enclosed business was somehow being honored. Then after awhile I noticed all the talk about whether or not Sy Berger had actually dumped the cards in the Long Island Sound. Since I wrote the story from an interview with Sy - one of a half dozen I did over 20-plus years - where he told the story, I can offer my assurances that he was almost certainly telling the truth at the time. There would have been no reason to make the story up, and in any event Sy wouldn't have done so. And he did tell me 400 cases. As to my initial interest in this thread, why was the cellophane wrapped arrangement given a pass in the first place? Seems to me that finding eight unopened 1952 Topps packs would have prompted immediate slabbing and grading and then simple sale through a major auction house.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 10-15-2019, 04:39 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is online now
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 4,218
Default

It's because one of the 1952 Topps pack finds was originally wrapped in cellophane by Fritsch, and so that it has some hobby history/provenance in such a fashion. The packs aren't owned by JustCollect (or they weren't during the National), just consigned, and the owner wants to try to sell them in this format first. If he doesn't get a buyer, JustCollect may convince him to have them slabbed. But since pack grading takes a few months, the owner may not have wanted to delay the sale that long.
And at half a mil for 8 packs, there's no demand for a flipper to buy it and sell off the individual packs.
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 10-15-2019, 08:33 PM
Volod Volod is offline
Steve
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NEOH
Posts: 800
Default Puzzling

Quote:
Originally Posted by T.S. OConnell View Post
I read these posts with some interest, initially because I wondered why the cellophane-enclosed business was somehow being honored. Then after awhile I noticed all the talk about whether or not Sy Berger had actually dumped the cards in the Long Island Sound. Since I wrote the story from an interview with Sy - one of a half dozen I did over 20-plus years - where he told the story, I can offer my assurances that he was almost certainly telling the truth at the time. There would have been no reason to make the story up, and in any event Sy wouldn't have done so. And he did tell me 400 cases. As to my initial interest in this thread, why was the cellophane wrapped arrangement given a pass in the first place? Seems to me that finding eight unopened 1952 Topps packs would have prompted immediate slabbing and grading and then simple sale through a major auction house.

I suppose that Topps may have had a concern that 400 cases disposed of in a much more cost-effective way, such as landfill, could have resulted in a lot of packs being pilfered by waste workers or others along the way. But, why would Berger have worried about that, since cards as collectibles were hardly a booming market at that time. Even so, having the disposal supervised by a company with a large incinerator also seems like a much cheaper - if less dramatic - method than hiring a barge to haul them out to sea. Is there some other consideration that is not so apparent?
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 10-15-2019, 09:40 PM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 5,833
Default

NYC had a few trash barge companies, going back almost to the beginning.

I believe the barge companies were.... how to put it.... independent of the "influences" in the rest of the NYC trash hauling industry.

Going with a regular trash hauler probably guaranteed that at least some portion of the batch didn't get burned or landfilled. But taking it directly to the barge themselves gave them more control.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 10-16-2019, 07:17 PM
Volod Volod is offline
Steve
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NEOH
Posts: 800
Default Bonano effect?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
NYC had a few trash barge companies, going back almost to the beginning.

I believe the barge companies were.... how to put it.... independent of the "influences" in the rest of the NYC trash hauling industry.

Going with a regular trash hauler probably guaranteed that at least some portion of the batch didn't get burned or landfilled. But taking it directly to the barge themselves gave them more control.

Right, Steve - that's one part of the puzzle, I guess, but the thing that seems inscrutable to me is why would Berger, or anyone else at Topps, be worried about such "insecurity" with their trash in 1960? Eight-year-old cards would have been considered practically worthless, wouldn't they? If someone, or anyone, wanted them, why not just give them away?
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 10-16-2019, 07:27 PM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 6,266
Default

I know Berger said they did it, but that does not mean it happened. Personally I agree with Dave, but do not care if I am wrong. Neat hobby lore either way.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 10-16-2019, 08:46 PM
Volod Volod is offline
Steve
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NEOH
Posts: 800
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
I know Berger said they did it, but that does not mean it happened. Personally I agree with Dave, but do not care if I am wrong. Neat hobby lore either way.

+1
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 10-17-2019, 12:48 PM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 5,833
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volod View Post
Right, Steve - that's one part of the puzzle, I guess, but the thing that seems inscrutable to me is why would Berger, or anyone else at Topps, be worried about such "insecurity" with their trash in 1960? Eight-year-old cards would have been considered practically worthless, wouldn't they? If someone, or anyone, wanted them, why not just give them away?
That's hard to say.
I suppose it could affect the local sales if stores were "encouraged" to stock 8 year old cards. And that might reflect poorly on the company.

It's pretty common today for companies to secure even old stocks that are destined for the trash.
The makerspace I'm a member of got a bunch of hardware etc donated from a local branch of a big company when it closed. They had a very good but old machine shop for repairing their equipment. I asked about the machines, not necessarily as donations, but if they could be bought if not donated.
Nope. They were afraid of liability.. If I bought the building I suppose, but the assumption was that it would get bulldozed into a hole or hauled away with the rest of the building if/when it got torn down.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 10-17-2019, 11:15 PM
Volod Volod is offline
Steve
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NEOH
Posts: 800
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
That's hard to say.
I suppose it could affect the local sales if stores were "encouraged" to stock 8 year old cards. And that might reflect poorly on the company.

It's pretty common today for companies to secure even old stocks that are destined for the trash.
The makerspace I'm a member of got a bunch of hardware etc donated from a local branch of a big company when it closed. They had a very good but old machine shop for repairing their equipment. I asked about the machines, not necessarily as donations, but if they could be bought if not donated.
Nope. They were afraid of liability.. If I bought the building I suppose, but the assumption was that it would get bulldozed into a hole or hauled away with the rest of the building if/when it got torn down.

Yeah, interesting analogy. But, what I meant in regard to "trash security" is, if Topps viewed the overstock as just something to dispose of (not through their normal wholesaling or retailing channels), why not use the cheapest means available? I can't imagine any liability concern with old cardstock viz dumping or incinerating versus hauling out to sea. What actually seems fishy to me (no pun) about the anecdotal account is that Berger was interviewed in the 1980's, around the time that vintage cards were exploding in value - especially the '52 Topps Mantle - and that hobby atmosphere may have "clouded" his memory about things that were done thirty years before.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 10-18-2019, 12:56 PM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 5,833
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volod View Post
Yeah, interesting analogy. But, what I meant in regard to "trash security" is, if Topps viewed the overstock as just something to dispose of (not through their normal wholesaling or retailing channels), why not use the cheapest means available? I can't imagine any liability concern with old cardstock viz dumping or incinerating versus hauling out to sea. What actually seems fishy to me (no pun) about the anecdotal account is that Berger was interviewed in the 1980's, around the time that vintage cards were exploding in value - especially the '52 Topps Mantle - and that hobby atmosphere may have "clouded" his memory about things that were done thirty years before.
I think if it did happen, it was probably just to keep someone from taking that many cases and selling them to shops either very cheaply, or as part of some sort of scheme.

Considering how much stuff got left in the back corners of warehouses back then it doesn't make tons of sense.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 10-18-2019, 02:03 PM
jchcollins's Avatar
jchcollins jchcollins is offline
John
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: NC
Posts: 1,394
Default

You have to admit the Berger story is a bit of a fairy tale. It would be nice if someone else that was there could corroborate it, but of course there never was.
__________________
I collect prewar commons, a few postwar sets I say I'm working on and may never complete, but mainly HOF postwar singles. Preference on mid-to lower technical grades with eye appeal. Cubs fan!
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 10-18-2019, 03:07 PM
maniac_73 maniac_73 is offline
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 108
Default

I worked for a publisher and all overstock books are returned to manufacturer and destroyed. Noone wants old stock hanging around because it devalues the brand.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old Yesterday, 12:02 AM
Volod Volod is offline
Steve
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NEOH
Posts: 800
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
I think if it did happen, it was probably just to keep someone from taking that many cases and selling them to shops either very cheaply, or as part of some sort of scheme.

Considering how much stuff got left in the back corners of warehouses back then it doesn't make tons of sense.

I agree.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New episode of "Guess the Grade 1952 Topps?" - unmasked! chalupacollects Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980) 17 07-09-2018 12:51 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:37 PM.


ebay GSB