The problem with the shiny stuff.

[packs]

All of the signatures look exactly the same but were signed in different areas of the card. What a disgrace. Isn't this fraud? If he was paid, wouldn't this amount to wire fraud?

[KingFisk]

Originally Posted by packs

All of the signatures look exactly the same but were signed in different areas of the card. What a disgrace. Isn't this fraud? If he was paid, wouldn't this amount to wire fraud?

Agreed on the fraud issue. I am not an attorney but this seems like a really big deal that could rattle the hobby and to some extent the NFL and NFLPA should it get more attention. Not sure if any of our many attorneys frequent this part of the board but would be interested in their take.

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[packs]

If I paid for a Dak auto or I bought a box of Panini because I wanted to pull the Dak auto, and the Dak auto provided by the player is a false signature, haven't I been defrauded?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

If I paid for a Dak auto or I bought a box of Panini because I wanted to pull the Dak auto, and the Dak auto provided by the player is a false signature, haven't I been defrauded?

I am sure they will let you return the item for a real one or just give your money back.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Sig is too elaborate that is a giveaway. Need a barely legible first and last initial with a little horizontal tail to look real these days.

[WillBBC]

I think the only real issue with modern cards is the redundancy. And the secondary market seems to play that out nicely. Sets that are basically legacy products at this point (Topps, Topps Chrome, Bowman, Bowman Chrome, Heritage, Archives) cost pennies per pack compared to the super redundant high end products (Museum, Tier one, Immaculate, etc.) but the big cards from the far cheaper products outsell them 10:1.

I know Judge isn't the best example, but look at his Heritage, Finest, and Archives autographs and variations compared to Museum, Tier One, and Platinum. It's not even close. Same goes for guys like Benintenti, Bregman, KB, Trout, Harper, you name it.

[bn2cardz]

Here is an interesting article about some of the most prolific mistakes by Panini.

http://www.sportscardradio.com/panin...cams-mistakes/

For those of you that prefer a summation it includes the following:

1) Fake Game used
2) Fake Autos
3) "Event worn" materials being labeled as "game used" - which, to me, really just sounds like an unprovable, passable, excuse for using fakes.
4) Cards being held back and not released in the original release of the product, or released in the wrong product.
5) And of course the Auto Pen

[steve B]

Originally Posted by packs

All of the signatures look exactly the same but were signed in different areas of the card. What a disgrace. Isn't this fraud? If he was paid, wouldn't this amount to wire fraud?

But they're not exactly the same. Unless autopens have gotten way more advanced that would mean he used at least four of them.

[packs]

Does it? All machinery acquires defects through usage. It could just be imperfections created by prolonged use.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by packs

Does it? All machinery acquires defects through usage. It could just be imperfections created by prolonged use.

One of the sigs is larger than the others, and the entrance and exit from the D is different on all four. I can see the slight differences being machine wear if he's used it a ton, and modern ones are apparently computer controlled, so it could be some sort of difference in how the machine ran over time. But even cheap stuff like printers are pretty durable and accurate.

On the other hand, I also can't see someone being that consistent in overall size and placing of the number in what looks like the exact same spot relative to the rest of it.