Ebay - Paypal Seller protection? Really?

danmckee · #1 07-01-2009, 07:27 AM

A very good friend of mine (not me for once) got burned badly by the gent who's name and info is posted at the end of this thread. He was hoping he was protected by paypal or ebay and both let him down. Any help, suggestions, or knowledge about the fraudulent buyer will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

"Sold T206 Ty Cobb Green Portrait PSA 5 on April 20th for $5500. on ebay to buyer bidsformore. Buyer paid via paypal on April 27th and card was shipped fully insured via express mail and was signed for and delivered on April 30th. After almost two months pass by the buyer files a chargeback with american express stating the buyer claims that the item was damaged on receipt or is significantly not as described. So after almost two months pass with NO contact from buyer stating to me the seller there was a problem with the package or the item was damaged since it was fully insured with the post office he files a chargeback. Once the chargeback was filed paypal immediately cancelled a bank transfer of $1800+ from my account as well as giving me a negative $-3700. balance which paypal wants me to immediately pay. Spoke to supervisor at paypal and they told me since buyer claims it was not as described the best case scenario for me is too have my card returned as there is no chance of getting my money back. The other great news is that so called seller protection policy they claim to have is NOT covered when a buyer claims the item is not as described. Again this was a graded card from PSA!! This buyer bidsformore on ebay last five feedbacks are all negatives from buyers who were scammed from this guy. It's great to see paypal and ebay are again looking out for the best interest of there sellers!!! Make sure you stay clear of this fraud!! By the way the PSA 5 Green Cobb's serial number is 09032078 with a sweet caporal 150 back as I am sure he sold the card within this two month timetable. Here is this Fraud's info where the card was delivered and the info which was given on his ebay account."
Shaunt Azadian
233 N. Maclay Ave. #147
San Fernando, CA 91340
818-402-8786

Matt · #2 07-01-2009, 07:36 AM

I knew that username was familiar - he bought a 1915 CJ Cobb from me on eBay via Best Offer a few months ago; two weeks went by and he never paid so I filed a non-paying bidder strike against him and relisted the card. I guess I should be thankful that he didn't pay!

This is where eBay is really bad - while they put some effort into looking at individual listings and transactions, it seems they put no effort into identifying patterns of bad behavior. 3 consecutive negatives from different members (or even 3 out of 6) should get you banned. This guy has 5 negs and at least 1 non-paying strike against him and still has an active account.

timzcardz · #3 07-01-2009, 08:03 AM

In this case a check of the buyers feedback would have raised some serious red flags.

Based on that I would have refunded the payment and not shipped to the buyer.

danmckee · #4 07-01-2009, 08:06 AM

I agree Tim, paypal and or ebay should have looked into the buyer a little but then the $5500 needs to come from somewhere and at that point, they would be eating it as the credit card company took the $5500 back from paypal.

What my friend has done is completely stopped selling on ebay so they only will beat him out of the $1800 paypal stole from him by freezing the transfer.

bbcemporium · #5 07-01-2009, 08:30 AM

So did the seller get his card back? If not, why was he still penalized? Stories like that make me sick.

danmckee · #6 07-01-2009, 08:36 AM

no card back at all, he is expecting an empty box with signature confirmation but he hasn't even received that!! And paypal won't give him the credit card info for him to contact the credit card company and let them know they are protecting a fraud.

iggyman · #7 07-01-2009, 08:43 AM

Scary and depressing story! That is a nice loophole in their policy. After searching the net, I found a few more paypal horror stories that were eerily similar. Seems like this scam is slowly spreading. Paypal is obviously aware of it, but since they cannot control the credit card companies......well, as Dan mentioned the money has to come from somewhere.

http://ask.metafilter.com/77638/Can-...t-can-go-wrong

I think this "loophole" finally puts the nail in the eBay coffin for me. Way too risky to fall prey to this scam on big ticket items. I will still sell on eBay, but nothing over ~$150 (with fingers crossed). Matt was real lucky, "bidsformore" obviously did not have the funds to pay for his CJ (or else we would probably be hearing the same story from him). Until paypal corrects this, it will only drive more sellers toward auction houses.

So get off that recliner and start working-out......those auction catalogs are going to get even heavier. Now, what was the name of that auction link by that Lucky fellow???

Lovely Day...

JamesGallo · #8 07-01-2009, 08:54 AM

I am sorry this it total BS. This guy should not even have an active account. If he hasn't contacted ebay I would do so, at the very least this guys account should be killed.

As suggested I would follow up with the post office and open that box in front of a postmaster and have them write a letter stating there was no card inside.

James G

danmckee · #9 07-01-2009, 03:13 PM

Dan, I had a detective from the San Fernando police department pay a visit to the buyers confirmed address and found out that address is a UPS store. The owner is a Mario Hernandez and A. Hernandez who signed for the package from the post office is his daughter. However when the owner of this UPS box came in to pick up the package the owner or daughter of the UPS store did not obtain a signature from the person picking up the package. My first question is how can a UPS store be someone's confirmed address by paypal?? Next how can a UPS store owner allow someone to pickup an express mail package insured for $5000. without obtaining a signature??

danmckee · #10 07-01-2009, 03:14 PM

How does paypal consider a UPS store a confirmed address for an individual??????? This is utter theft and fraud by paypal and ebay!

daviddbreadman · #11 07-01-2009, 03:40 PM

Perhaps the UPS store owner has a fake box in his own store and picked up his package from himself and he forgot to have himself sign for the package so that in the event he is caught he will at most be chastised for not having himself sign for his package. And it disappears and is laundered like a dirty $twenty. I'd say look into the financials of the UPS store and see if its losing money and needed a cash injection of $5k or so to pay rent. Also maybe someone should raid the guys house to see if Mr. Hernandez collects baseball cards! haha

Anthony S. · #12 07-01-2009, 03:51 PM

Google search for this Shaunt Azadian reveals....

http://www.armeniansconnect.com/prof...UserSid=211619

p.s. By his own admission, he's "intellegent"

Peter_Spaeth · #13 07-01-2009, 06:49 PM

Paypal is not equipped to referee disputes, so it is just going to rely on default rules (e.g. a buyer claiming an item is not as described is always right). The only recourse may be to go after the buyer, either civilly or through the authorities.

Peter_Spaeth · #14 07-01-2009, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daviddbreadman

Perhaps the UPS store owner has a fake box in his own store and picked up his package from himself and he forgot to have himself sign for the package so that in the event he is caught he will at most be chastised for not having himself sign for his package. And it disappears and is laundered like a dirty $twenty. I'd say look into the financials of the UPS store and see if its losing money and needed a cash injection of $5k or so to pay rent. Also maybe someone should raid the guys house to see if Mr. Hernandez collects baseball cards! haha

Very likely scenario. Almost as likely as what happened -- a fraud was committed by Mr. Azadian, who has a box at the UPS store.

Rob D. · #15 07-01-2009, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danmckee

My first question is how can a UPS store be someone's confirmed address by paypal?? Next how can a UPS store owner allow someone to pickup an express mail package insured for $5000. without obtaining a signature??

Dan,

Regarding your first question: My PayPal address is the address I use at my UPS store to receive packages. My guess is that it's not that unusual. I think by "confirmed address" PayPal wants an address at which items can be delivered (and not necessarily the account owner's residential address). I did not always have my UPS store address as my PayPal address, but if I remember correctly, it wasn't tough to switch. I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong, just that it's not an indication that someone's trying to pull a fast one.

Regarding your second question, I've never had to sign for a package that I've picked up at my UPS store address. The UPS store signs for it on delivery, and all of the employees there know me, and they give me my packages. I've asked other people who have UPS mailboxes, and this seems to be standard operating procedure. I don't agree that it's a good policy, because the store has no protection if a week after I pick up a package I go back to them and say I didn't get it. There are some weeks where I might pick up 7-10 packages, and they're not keeping track of any of them. I would much rather they keep a log to protect both them and me. What happens if they sign for a package, and it gets misplaced? I have no proof that I didn't pick it up.

So though I don't think it's a good system, I also don't think it's automatically a red flag that some kind of fraud has taken place.

danmckee · #16 07-02-2009, 07:03 AM

Makes sense Rob, based on this, the UPS store may be liable then. That is a pathetic practice they have.

The red flag in this case is that the seller does not have the card or the money back, that is theft/fraud no matter how you slice it.

It sounds like that this is a very easy way to steal through a UPS store, my friend may be able to sue the store owner.

thanks for the info
Dan

Peter_Spaeth · #17 07-02-2009, 07:14 AM

How is it the store owner's fault if the buyer defrauded your friend?

danmckee · #18 07-02-2009, 07:18 AM

For having a service similar to a PO Box (unless I am misunderstanding something) and handing out expensive tracked packages with no signatures or ID?

I don't know, seems like a ridiculous practice to me if you are going to handle shipments of thousands of dollars no?

danmckee · #19 09-17-2009, 11:08 AM

It looks like we are at a dead end with this guy. American Express issued a charge back and never even required that he return the merchandise!!

Paypal accepts the item not as described reason even though the Cobb card was graded by a reputable 3rd party service that ebay recognizes on its listings.

botn · #20 09-17-2009, 11:38 AM

Dan,

Have you guys asked paypal or ebay how a SGC or PSA graded card is even eligible for a SNAD claim? Both of those companies stand behind their product and have written guarantees. Not sure how they can stick a seller with this responsibility. Any lawyers want to comment????

Really sorry to hear about the outcome.

Greg

D. Bergin · #21 09-17-2009, 11:56 AM

Amazingly this guy is still registered at Ebay.

Also, thanks to Ebay's new rules...........you can't even leave him a negative for stealing your money and your cards either.

.....and get this..........he's still listed as a PowerSeller even though he hasn't received a feedback in about a year.

tbob · #22 09-17-2009, 12:15 PM

This guy is a real steaming pile. Makes me want to turn to the BST for selling cards even more.

bbcemporium · #23 09-17-2009, 12:21 PM

What is the buyer's eBay ID? Sounds like a good candidate to add to the blocked list.