Hey, pennant guys

[Fballguy]

[Fballguy]

[Fballguy]

[Showdawg]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Showdawg: Makes sense. BTW...I found another guy with the same Browns pennant I have. Unfortunately, he's not ready to sell either. I was going to put him in touch with you.

Its all good...thanks for thinking about it

[Fballguy]

[Fballguy]

[ooo-ribay]

GREAT football pennants, Rob. I noticed many of them have "streamer" tassels that you rarely, if ever, see on baseball pennants.

As far as the bad artwork on the Ad Flag pennents, I'll have to post my Giants examples. The art IS funky but I kind of like them.

[Fballguy]

[Fballguy]

[YankeeFan]

Fballguy: I enjoyed seeing those pennants! Thanks for showing them.
Being from NJ I remember the Meadowlands stadium being built, but I forgot about the short-lived "New Jersey" Giants name. What an uproar that caused.

[WillowGrove]

Originally Posted by YankeeFan

Fballguy: I enjoyed seeing those pennants! Thanks for showing them.
Being from NJ I remember the Meadowlands stadium being built, but I forgot about the short-lived "New Jersey" Giants name. What an uproar that caused.

I remember that too but I have a question for Rob/Fball guy - that Jersey Giants pennant is obviously pre-Meadowlands (Katcavage, Tarkenton, et al.) why were they called the Jersey Giants?

Also Rob, I saw your Lions pennant and thought you might like to see this one. I don't own it any longer but if I remember my research, I think this is from the one year the Lions didn't play at Briggs in the 40s, hence the little space and the set-back letter L. Thought you'd like to see.

[Showdawg]

You got this one buddy?

[ooo-ribay]

Hey Rob - your first NY Giants FB is kind of similar to these NY and SF Giants BB...

[ooo-ribay]

No "sex offenders" in these Ad Flag examples . The NY one had a crude representation of the Polo Grounds. The SF Giants kept this design for a short period, before replacing it with the Golden Gate Bridge.

[ooo-ribay]

1964 World Champ Browns is a reprint, right?

[Showdawg]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

1964 World Champ Browns is a reprint, right?

I don't know if it would be considered a reprint....It came out in 1964 after Browns won Championship....I just think they used the old stock to make the 64 pennant

[Fballguy]

Willow grove: Thanks for sharing that picture and the history behind it. Very cool. I always wonder what the thought process was behind using non-team colors for pennants. I have quite a few color variations particularly for my Rams pennants as they're my team (sadly).

Showdawg: I don't have that one but there was one up on Ebay a couple years ago. I bowed out when bidding got too high. Do you think that was a hand modification to the tip to compensate for a missing tip? The one on eBay had a pointy tip. I do see other old pennants cut like that from time to time.

ooo-ribay: Love the pics. Are you referring to my white 64 World Champs pennant? Did they make reprints of it? I wondered about the whole punched in the left border. It is in very good condition so maybe it's not as old as I thought unfortunately.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by WillowGrove

I remember that too but I have a question for Rob/Fball guy - that Jersey Giants pennant is obviously pre-Meadowlands (Katcavage, Tarkenton, et al.) why were they called the Jersey Giants?

The Giants actually made the deal to move to the Meadowland in 1971 and from my old football card collecting days, I know most of those names were on the Giants roster in 1971-72. Jim Katcavage though I think was already retired.

[WillowGrove]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Willow grove: Thanks for sharing that picture and the history behind it. Very cool. I always wonder what the thought process was behind using non-team colors for pennants. I have quite a few color variations particularly for my Rams pennants as they're my team (sadly).

Showdawg: I don't have that one but there was one up on Ebay a couple years ago. I bowed out when bidding got too high. Do you think that was a hand modification to the tip to compensate for a missing tip? The one on eBay had a pointy tip. I do see other old pennants cut like that from time to time.

ooo-ribay: Love the pics. Are you referring to my white 64 World Champs pennant? Did they make reprints of it? I wondered about the whole punched in the left border. It is in very good condition so maybe it's not as old as I thought unfortunately.

And Rob, any idea why your Jersey Giants pennant says Jersey since it was back in the pre-meadowlands days? thanks. Peter

[WillowGrove]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

The Giants actually made the deal to move to the Meadowland in 1971 and from my old football card collecting days, I know most of those names were on the Giants roster in 1971-72. Jim Katcavage though I think was already retired.

Aaaaaand we posted at the exact time.

That's an interesting fact I never knew. Thanks!

[Showdawg]

Showdawg: I don't have that one but there was one up on Ebay a couple years ago. I bowed out when bidding got too high. Do you think that was a hand modification to the tip to compensate for a missing tip? The one on eBay had a pointy tip. I do see other old pennants cut like that from time to time.

.

Its back up on eBay for $1999....Looking at the closeup, it does look like its been cut
http://www.ebay.com/itm/131917860548...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by WillowGrove

Aaaaaand we posted at the exact time.

That's an interesting fact I never knew. Thanks!

I don't have this one...found thanks to my good friend Google. "New York" version of the same pennant.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Showdawg

Its back up on eBay for $1999....Looking at the closeup, it does look like its been cut
http://www.ebay.com/itm/131917860548...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Yikes...$1999? He's going to have to lower his expectations with a missing tip. Still very cool but not 2K cool. Can't even throw in free shipping? Geez...

[Duluth Eskimo]

Rob,
Those are some really nice vintage football pennants. Thanks for showing. I have never seen that dolphins generic version that you showed, must be a real tough one.

In regard to the 1964 white Browns pennant, yes that is a "reprint" or printed much later. I have never seen a "real" or vintage version of that exact pennant. I have seen all of the other Browns versions that were shown. Those are some tremendous pennants as well.

That Steelers / Cardinals pennant sold on eBay a few years ago. I bid on it, but didn't go too high considering the trimmed tip. I want to say it sold for $300-500. Extremely rare pennant and very nice condition other than the tip. I have never been one to tell someone what they choose to sell an item for, especially a very rare pennant. Someone may want or need it and be willing to pay well for it. Either way, it's nice to see that pennant as well. Good stuff is getting tough to find. Jason

[ooo-ribay]

Not to beat a dead horse or bust anyone's chops, but I think that 1964 Browns pennant HAS to be a later release.

It looks like the later, stiffer, polyester-infused "felt."

The hole suggests it had a cardboard "hang strip" (perhaps Wincraft?) attached to it. Are there maybe four staple holes on the border?

Lack of tassels (not sure if this is indicative or anything).

On baseball pennants, a league logo (MLB) denotes 1969 or later. Not sure when NFL licensing came into being.

Again, not trying to disparage that pennant....just adding my two cents for sake of debate.

[ooo-ribay]

^^^^ Jason beat me to it.

[Showdawg]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Not to beat a dead horse or bust anyone's chops, but I think that 1964 Browns pennant HAS to be a later release.

It looks like the later, stiffer, polyester-infused "felt."

The hole suggests it had a cardboard "hang strip" (perhaps Wincraft?) attached to it. Are there maybe four staple holes on the border?

Lack of tassels (not sure if this is indicative or anything).

On baseball pennants, a league logo (MLB) denotes 1969 or later. Not sure when NFL licensing came into being.

Again, not trying to disparage that pennant....just adding my two cents for sake of debate.

Yes...The 64 Browns white pennant came out in the late 90s, maybe early 2000s....I remember when they came out, some sellers were trying to pass them off as vintage....it was so obvious that they werent

[Showdawg]

Love to add this one to my collection too....anybody seen one?

[Fballguy]

Is there no such thing as an original version of this Browns pennant? Or is there and someone just decided to reprint it?

I just picked that one up last week so I still have time to return it. Thought the price was too good...but a lot of people don't know what a pennant is worth so didn't worry too much about it.

How about the one that came with it? For a reprint, the white one still seems relatively uncommon. I don't remember seeing one on eBay previously and there are none now.

eBay item number:351942251790

Have to do a sold item search for it to come up.

[Fballguy]

Also...When did the transition occur from soft felt to hard "felt"? I thought mid-60's seemed about right.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Also...When did the transition occur from soft felt to hard "felt"? I thought mid-60's seemed about right.

That one is new. The stiff style started in the late 60's, but that one is much thinner and made of all synthetic material. They started with a stiffer felt, then went to a thicker synthetic, then went to a thinner synthetic in the mid 70's. It's pretty much stayed that style until recently when they started printing again on the softer thicker synthetic (i.e.: Mitchell and Ness style).

[Fballguy]

Still weird that there aren't more of them floating around. I can't even get it to come up in a google search. Even if I include "1964" and or "reproduction" Others do come up...but not this one.

Don't doubt that it's modern...just surprised, like most modern reproductions, that there aren't a lot of them out there.

[thetahat]

Great discussion! Awesome football pennants and Rob, those are fantastic NY and SF Giants pennants. Cool design. The SF version is super rare ...

I own and manage a team in a collegiate summer league, we are the South Jersey Giants, and our logo is a close variation of it ...

[dwr11]

Originally Posted by Showdawg

Love to add this one to my collection too....anybody seen one?

I sold a pennant just like this on eBay 3 or so months ago. It was in similar condition to this one.

[Showdawg]

Originally Posted by dwr11

I sold a pennant just like this on eBay 3 or so months ago. It was in similar condition to this one.

This is the picture of that pennant that sold on eBay a few months back...I was going to make an offer, then t was gone....

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by dwr11

I sold a pennant just like this on eBay 3 or so months ago. It was in similar condition to this one.

I see Jim Brown, Bobby Mitchell, Pat Summerall, Norm Snead, Andy Robustelli, Abe Woodson, Timmy Brown, Maxie Baughan, Norm Van Brocklin, Pete Retzlaff, Tommy Mason, Forrest Gregg...

I think.

[Teamgluck]

Originally Posted by Showdawg

You got this one buddy?

Wow! wonder how many of these survived since they only played for one season.

[perezfan]

The example pictured above is definitely/significantly altered.

Mine is pictured below...

I will probably be consigning this pennant to REA for their Spring Auction (along with quite a few others). Condition is EXMT+ with no notable flaws.

If anyone is interested in making an offer, please reach out to me via email or PM. I will not be listing it on the BST. So (in the event it doesn't sell here) please be sure to look for it in the next REA.

Thanks!
Mark

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by 71buc

I would have posted this much earlier but it took awhile for to find this in my piles of Pirate crap. Nonetheless, this is a 1971 World Series Champion Pirates pennant. I would assume it would have been issued in late in 1971 or 1972. Based on the use of the same font on the word Pittsburgh and the vintage Pirate image it was likely produced by the same company as your Steeler pennants during a similar time frame. I hope this helps.

Interesting topic...

Here is what I believe to be the original version of that particular Pirates Pennant. The felt is very soft, and the Pirate is color-shaded. Very rare version of an otherwise somewhat common pennant. This is actually the only color-shaded version I've seen....

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Remember the old ads in TV Guide that asked you to sketch and submit a cartoon drawing? The "winner" would get discounted art lessons or something. Well I think that's how the Ad Flag Pennant Company hired their artists. I have some Ad Flags in my collection and they are universally just ugly-a** pennants. Look at this Brooklyn Dodgers pennant. I have to have it, I am a collector and it is Brooklyn after all. But the guy looks less like a bum and more like a sex offender. And why the huge claw-like hand? This Phillies "quaker" pennant started giving me the creeps so I took it down, I might have to bury it in the backyard before it gives me bad dreams. And what is he stepping on ... is that a base or a box of Tastykakes?

On top of the bad art, they were often poorly cut (crooked, as with scissors) and the old-style designs have confused many collectors, as evident by this discussion ... I'm guessing these weren't sold in the ballparks but instead in the parking lots or back alleys.

Here's one that defies logic. It is unquestionably vintage and "of the era"...

The font saying "Brooklyn" and "Dodgers" is identical to Ad Flag's "Sex Offender" Bum. Same for the font saying "Da Bums". But instead of showing the creepy sex offender mascot, it has a magnificent depiction of the Willard Mullin Bum inside of Ebbets Field.

I always considered these Stadium versions to be of a higher caliber, in terms of their graphics and quality. So how could this "hybrid" pennant even exist?

[thetahat]

Mark: great Ebbets pennant, I saw it on eBay. Surely one that isn't one of their typical uglies. That's the only AdFlag I've seen depicting a ballpark. They must have been making them for a long time, they have made A's and Browns, and have soft felt. And a few of them like your Pirates are in color. But they kept the same designs for many years, I have that same Pirates in gold and it is stiff like a 70s pennant. The Phillies Quaker pennant also comes in light blue stuff felt.

Here's another AdFlag Brooklyn version.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Remember the old ads in TV Guide that asked you to sketch and submit a cartoon drawing? The "winner" would get discounted art lessons or something. Well I think that's how the Ad Flag Pennant Company hired their artists. I have some Ad Flags in my collection and they are universally just ugly-a** pennants.

You want ugly? I got your ugly, right here. This "artist" was rejected by Ad Flag.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

You want ugly? I got your ugly, right here. This "artist" was rejected by Ad Flag.

Great pennants! I have the top one, neat to see it dated by the ticket. And yeah, why is he wearing just shorts and socks?

These might be early Ad Flags though I wouldn't wager it. Pennants like the top one have in common: felt (not cloth), single stitching at wide end, thick strip, and the tassels are thin and made of the same felt. Usually just one color print but some have multi color graphic that looks almost spray painted like my sex offender Dodger pennant. The STL "angry brownie" pennant is of this mold.

[perezfan]

Well, I guess that after 843 posts and 105,000 views, this has morphed into an "Ugly Pennant Thread"...

That Giants Pennant is pretty horrendous, and looks like it was drawn by a semi-talented 3rd grader. His chest looks like it's made of ocean water, and why are there Xs on his socks?

Here's another example of an artist that may have failed to make the cut with AdFlag. This is my nomination for worst vintage pennant/dumbest logo (but still better than the modern junk made today...)

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Well, I guess that after 843 posts and 105,000 views, this has morphed into an "Ugly Pennant Thread"...

That Giants Pennant is pretty horrendous, and looks like it was drawn by a semi-talented 3rd grader. His chest looks like it's made of ocean water, and why are there Xs on his socks?

Here's another example of an artist that may have failed to make the cut with AdFlag. This is my nomination for worst vintage pennant/dumbest logo (but still better than the modern junk made today...)

Yes that is an awful logo. What hitter looks like that in his follow thru? (Of course the bigger question is what hitter has the letter A as his torso.) They replaced the cool elephant logo on the KC stadium pennants with this.

Now time for the ugliest of the uglies, pretty sure this one is a very early AdFlag ....

[thetahat]

I will go ahead now and post my favorite Phillies pennant, and one of my favorites in general ... this design was used on a yearbook one season, it is one of two Phillies Keezer pennants and just has a great 50s look to it.

[Bumpus Jones]

Thought I would join in on weird / ugly pennant -rama. It's a mini, but still pretty cool. Would love to find a full size version...

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Beautiful pennants, guys! Many times I have thought about buying a few baseball/football pennants from 50s and 60s. I really like the colors and logos! I remember being at the 2015 National and feeling blown away by some I saw for sale. Space to display or lack thereof has stopped me thus far. Do you all display all of yours or store them in some way?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[YankeeFan]

Can I get an Amen on this addition to the Ugly Pennant parade?
What was the maker thinking? What fan would have bought this?

[perezfan]

GREAT submission. That Yankees Pennant will be tough to beat.

I agree.... What fan would buy it? Especially with all the other beautiful Yankee Pennants around at the time