This Is A Tragedy

[oldjudge]

I'm a Yankee fan but Francona is a good manager and a class act. Shame on the Red Sox.

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_19012052

[D. Bergin]

That's ridiculous, though I get the sense Tito wanted out anyways.

Sox always seem to be looking for a scapegoat, whether it's Buckner, Grady Little, Carl Crawford, Francona or Babe Ruth cursing them. You'd think a couple World Series titles would have changed that mentality.

[bbcard1]

He'll probably get stuck with a massive pay raise in a more livable city with more rational fans.

[Griffins]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

He'll probably get stuck with a massive pay raise in a more livable city with more rational fans.

Doubtful, despite the turmoil Mattingly did a good job, and Scoscia's job is safe forever.

[Ladder7]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

He'll probably get stuck with a massive pay raise in a more livable city with more rational fans.

I find my town quite livable (wtf that means) and every member of my family and coworker wants Tito to stay put. Some fans are over the top, everywhere. Now please, get your head out yer butt.

Ps, til the Bs hit the ice, i am permitted to be cranky


Have a nice day, Steve

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

He'll probably get stuck with a massive pay raise in a more livable city with more rational fans.

Boston is a very liveable city,,, great restaurants, surrounded by history, theatre, museums,,,

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

He'll probably get stuck with a massive pay raise in a more livable city with more rational fans.

+1 And win another title or two!

[Kenny Cole]

Scott.

I agree that a manager's responsibilty is to field the best team and, more importantly, to win. Francona did that for most of the season. Then he didn't. Did he suddenly become a poor manager and make bad decisions at the end of the season? My guess is that he remained pretty well the same and that some (nearly all) of his players tanked at the end of the season.

I would be real interested in your input about what he should have done to reverse a 7-20 September, what decisions he should have made and didn't, and who should have been in the lineup (in order to win) who wasn't. Let me know when you have that all figured out. Then we can talk.

Kenny

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Scott.

I agree that a manager's responsibilty is to field the best team and, more importantly, to win. Francona did that for most of the season. Then he didn't. Did he suddenly become a poor manager and make bad decisions at the end of the season? My guess is that he remained pretty well the same and that some (nearly all) of his players tanked at the end of the season.

I would be real interested in your input about what he should have done to reverse a 7-20 September, what decisions he should have made and didn't, and who should have been in the lineup (in order to win) who wasn't. Let me know when you have that all figured out. Then we can talk.

Kenny

Kenny - we don't really need to talk further on this. If you think a manager's responsibilities end on September 5, that's your right.

[GrayGhost]

Awful move by the Red Sox. OF course, they always "fire the manager" when things fall apart.

I did just hear from a clip of Curt Schilling, who said there were "camaraderie issues" according to Francona. Course, that's only part of it.

[sycks22]

It had nothing to do with Crawford hitting .240 or Lackey's almost 7.00 era. It was all coaching. What a joke. 2 titles in 8 years and now you're yesterday's trash cuz your team fell a part.

[barrysloate]

Shouldn't topics like these be posted in the watercooler section? We have a forum for sports talk that is hardly ever used.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Shouldn't topics like these be posted in the watercooler section? We have a forum for sports talk that is hardly ever used.

This is exactly what that section was made for.

[xdrx]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I'm a Yankee fan but Francona is a good manager and a class act. Shame on the Red Sox.

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_19012052

I just don't know about Tito. I watched him closely when he managed the Phillies, where he was absolutely unimpressive. Just seemed to be one of the boys with the vets on the squad. That relationship with Schilling seemed to land him in Beantown, and now it seems like relationships with players are shoving him out the door.

Whatever happens happens, but it's far from a tragedy (even by sports standards).

[benchod]

Well whether this topic is in the proper section or not a manager losing his job is hardly a "tragedy".
People who think it is should talk to Andrew and his daughter to get some perspective.

[thetruthisoutthere]

A Tragedy? Are you serious? I'm a Yankee fan and have much respect for what Francona did for the Red Sox but please, "A tragedy?"

A tragedy is a hard-working man losing job and maybe eventually losing his home. Francona is a millionaire.

A tragedy is the abusing of children, men and women all over the world. A tragedy is the abuse of thousands of poor defenseless animals on a daily basis.

Francona is a millionaire who is able to pay his heating bill every winter.

A tragedy? Show me.

And he'll find another job paying him millions per year.

Poor Terry.

[tiger8mush]

when the OP said tragedy, i think he means IN PERSPECTIVE of sports. I don't think he is comparing it to real life tragedies.

as much as i hate the red sox, boston is a nice town (though i'd never want to live in it, as its way too busy for me). its certainly no worse than NY -well, except for the fans lol

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

when the OP said tragedy, i think he means IN PERSPECTIVE of sports. I don't think he is comparing it to real life tragedies.

as much as i hate the red sox, boston is a nice town (though i'd never want to live in it, as its way too busy for me). its certainly no worse than NY -well, except for the fans lol

Shannon Stone's death from falling from the upper deck at a Texas Rangers game this summer is a tragedy.

Terry Francona losing his job with the Red Sox is not a tragedy. There is no "Perspective of sports" using the word "tragedy" when a manager, who has already earned millions of dollars, loses his job.

[calvindog]

Guys, it's baseball. It's a game. I don't think Jay was suggesting that Francona losing his job was a tragedy on the level of someone dying. It's a baseball tragedy. And he's right, it is. Unreal that Francona took the fall for that joke of a team.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by xdrx

I just don't know about Tito. I watched him closely when he managed the Phillies, where he was absolutely unimpressive. Just seemed to be one of the boys with the vets on the squad. That relationship with Schilling seemed to land him in Beantown, and now it seems like relationships with players are shoving him out the door.

Whatever happens happens, but it's far from a tragedy (even by sports standards).

Yeah, those manager/player relationships are kind of important. It's part of winning games, especially when you come to the pressures and fatigue of September. When a team has the hugest September collapse in history, you have to consider the guy who's running things on the field....where the games were lost.

[tbob]

Reports out of Minneapolis that the Red Sox are interested in talking to Ron Gardenhire about the job. As a Twins fan who watched Gardenhire become the worst enabler in MLB, I'd swap Gardy for Francona in a heartbeat although I think Francona will ultimately end up in Chicago with the Sox.

[chaddurbin]

his managing contributed to the collapse...someone's gotta take the fall. i'm on the side of baseball managing is the most overrated when it comes to influencing the success of a team.

[Kenny Cole]

What contributed to the collapse more than the managing was the piss-poor play of pretty much the entire team (except Jacoby Ellsbury) during the entire month of September. The manager doesn't hit, pitch or field. Of course, management can't really fire a player, so the head that rolls is that of someone else. That's the way it is. Theo Epstein made pretty much all of the player decisions, so is he all of a sudden a bad GM too?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

What contributed to the collapse more than the managing was the piss-poor play of pretty much the entire team (except Jacoby Ellsbury) during the entire month of September. The manager doesn't hit, pitch or field. Of course, management can't really fire a player, so the head that rolls is that of someone else. That's the way it is. Theo Epstein made pretty much all of the player decisions, so is he all of a sudden a bad GM too?

I hear this argument a lot, and I don't get it. In your opinion, what is a manager's responsibility, if not to make the right decisions about who is on the field at any given time, and to get the most out of them that he can? Aren't these things a huge part of winning?

I'm not jumping on the 90% of baseball who disagree with me - obviously they are right, I just haven't heard them build a good case that I can agree with.

Haven't any of you had a coach or manager that inspired you to do your best? who showed you that a team was more (or less - see Yankees) than the sum of its parts?

[YankeeCollector]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I'm a Yankee fan but Francona is a good manager and a class act. Shame on the Red Sox.

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_19012052

Francona made it really harder to hate the Red Sox as a Yankee fan. He is a class act.

[kkkkandp]

Despite his prior accomplishments, he would have been crucified by the Boston media all winter and spring. And if he got the team off to a slow start next year or even hit a rough patch after getting them off to a good start, he would have been fired.

I am of the opinion that the manager doesn't lose nearly as many games as the players do. Managers don't hit or pitch or field. Can a manager make a bonehead choice here and there? Sure. Did Francona make 72 bonehead calls this year? If he did, they didn't all result in a Boston loss. Case in point - in the last game of the season he put his ace closer in and that big star blew the game.

I think Francona knew the Boston fans are rabid enough that they would have screamed for the Boston administration to take action and he probably felt the Boston administration was already leaning that way. He simply got his answer when they didn't talk him out of leaving. Stupid on the part of Boston administration, but predictable.

[Paul S]

...Same as the old boss.

[U240robert]

I don't think the Boston fans had a problem with Francona- it was the ownership group.
The Fans know who the lousy players were this year and Francona can only do so much. Every so often, no matter how good, a manager needs to move on. I'm a Boston fan and hated seeing him go, but I would've like to see him held players more accountable. He totally backed Lackey all year and he just had the worse starting pitching year in Red Sox history. Sometimes the manager needs to chew out the player(s), not necessary in the press but in some way.

[Jay Wolt]

Any word (or rumour) who is going to replace Francona?

[martyogelvie]

sometimes its just time to go.. besides if he ends up at Wrigley field in a Cubs uniform...