Help! The Hobby is DYYYINNGGGGG!!!!

[mouschi]

Boy, have times changed. As a kid who grew up in the 80's and 90's, when you would turn on an "oldies" radio station, you might hear songs from Elvis, the Temptations, the Beatles and Johnny Cash. We thought we could re-live how life was for our parents growing up by watching sitcoms such as the Wonder Years.

Fun fact, did you know that THIS is the guy who was the narrator for The Wonder Years?!



Yeah, I know! Blew my mind too.

Jokes would flow about asking your parents how it was to have a dinosaur for a pet, or if they could only see black and white back then (a reference to the lack of color television ... I'm proud of that one, thank you very much!)

Just recently, things have gotten real for me. If we take the same time period difference, today's oldies stations would be playing Pearl Jam, Snoop Dogg, Metallica and the Backstreet Boys. The Wonder Years would be about life growing up in the 90's.

The 90's Wonder Years would fondly reminisce about how we old fogies had to actually go to a library to look up information. We would need to either find a pay-phone to make a call or wait until we got home. Computers would be just getting into playing 2" x 2" grainy video in full color (and we would all think it was amazing.)

In a newspaper, you might find an advertisement like this:



The bizarre thing of it all is that every single one of these things can be done with a single cell phone that most of us have on us at all times. Well...except for when driving, while at the dinner table, or when talking to others ... you aren't on your phone when driving or conversing with others, ARE YOU?!?!?!)

When watching today's movies, I see the "hot young stars" from my youth look not so hot and young anymore. Brad Pitt is an old man, Jennifer Lopez is deeply engulfed into her 40's and many of our baseball heroes from the 80's can be found spouting off nonsensical things via twitter.

I have run into quite a few threads recently online about my beloved hobby - baseball card collecting. Many people online are saying that the hobby is DYING. It is on life support. It has been overtaken by people who want to make a quick buck, and will be cutthroats to get what they want.

Accusations are flying about how group breaks and card flippers are systematically destroying the hobby.

But are they really?

We have all heard it before - about how we got here. Back in the 80's, if you didn't have a Beckett price guide, you were simply clueless. I remember scoffing when someone offered me 25% book value for some cards I brought to them (highway robbery, I tell ya!)

Ebay comes along, and we collectors are met with our first healthy dose of supply and demand. The 1989 Donruss Ken Griffey Jr. rated rookie may have had several price guides back then stating it is $10, but, if 1000 people have them at $10 online, and there are only 48 buyers, what happens to the other 952? The prices drop ..... and drop ... and drop ... until they can be had for $1.50 each.

Boom. "The bottom has dropped out of the card market, and all of our cards are worthless."

I still hear this time and time again from people, but to be perfectly honest, that line is tired. Yeah, cards from 1989 are not worth what they were back in 1989, but get over it. Don't throw the baby out with the '90 donruss. Today's cards can have tremendous value. Far more than what 1989 cards had back in 1989 even.

I know it isn't a popular thing to say, but I'll go ahead and say it: Card companies have done a great job in bringing the hobby along to where it is now. With die cut and insert innovations, to adding game used pieces and pack pulled autographs - brilliant! (Now all they need to do is make some cards like the FOUR ONE release and we'll be all set!

Look, 15 years after 1989, we all knew what junk wax was. That is what happens when you produce BILLIONS of a certain set for a year. This is NOT a death sentence for all cards going forward. Today, in 2015, we still look back very fondly at cards from 15+ years ago - and there is still value. Especially the inserts and parallels. Some of the cards I dream of owning are from 15+ years ago.

Now that we have access to ebay, we are now able to get a better understanding of what things truly are worth in real-time. I am not about to disrespect Beckett though - I'm merely saying it has gone from being the card value bible to what its name suggests it is: a guide. Just like ebay.

Ebay is certainly not the card value bible either, as I would venture to say card transactions that occur there are only a small piece of the pie. One thing to realize is that there are still new collectors coming on board, and young adults that are coming back to the hobby as well, after a hiatus due to having a family and starting a career.

Nothing under the sun is new.

Yes, there are tons of people buying just to re-sell cards, and there are prospectors who hoard all of the latest Kris Bryant cards for profit, but that is okay. Let them do their thing, and you do yours. There are bad guys out there trying to put fake patches in cards, and even card companies that have recently come under fire due to the potential fake jersey pieces and autographs, but again - this is nothing new.

When all is said and done, I don't have any charts to prove my point that the hobby is not dying, but I do know that people aren't going to shops or shows as much anymore. I don't think that is an accurate way to taking the pulse of the hobby, though. I think people are just doing what people in 2015 do - they do things online!

There are TONS of people out there who do nothing but stay at their computers all day checking ebay for new treasures and chatting it up with other collectors on card forums. I wouldn't say our hobby is dying. I'd just say it is changing. I do have fond memories of the simplicity of collecting back when I was a kid. And while I sure do miss having my neighborhood friends coming over to trade their Canseco cards for my Will Clark cards, I am now okay with the fact that my new neighborhood trading buddies are thousands of miles away. It may not be as cool as sitting down with someone, but it sure does make getting the mail fun, and takes the sting out of seeing what bills await me as well.

Agree? Disagree? Opinions welcomed!

[1963Topps Set]

Is it a "hobby" or an industry?

[mouschi]

Originally Posted by 1963Topps Set

Is it a "hobby" or an industry?

I guess it depends upon which aspect you are talking about, and to whom you are speaking This is like asking is a tomato a fruit or a vegetable. To me, it is a vegetable for one reason - tomatoes are gross, and in order to be a fruit, you must be delicious.

For me, when I'm collecting Canseco cards, it is a hobby. When I am buying and selling resell lots, it is industry ... well, let me revise that. It is somewhere in between, because it isn't all about money for me. If it were, there are other far more profitable things I could be dabbling in. So, lets make this a new word:

Hobbistry. (Copyright 2015, Mouschi)

[ALR-bishop]

" I hope some small creature does not bore a hole in my head and lay it's eggs, because then, later, when I think I am having a great idea, it might just be the eggs hatching".... Jack Handey

[Harliduck]

Great commentary, and very well written. I enjoyed that, thanks! I'm a child of the 70's and 80's, and 89 was certainly a pivotal year in the hobby/industry. I was buying cases of Donruss/Upper Deck/Fleer/Topps with the rest of them...and then DONE by the end of 90.

I do think there has been a complete resurgence in the hobby for my generation. I can't tell you how many times I have heard my exact same story. Collected as a kid...got out of it during the junk years...came back in their 30s & 40s as Ebay has now made getting those vintage cards that were so out of reach for us as a kid completely accessible. I wouldn't say its dying either, far from it...when I can go buy a 54 Topps Aaron PSA 8 for $100, I will concede...

[CW]

Based on recent auction prices of cards I follow and appreciate, the hobby is definitely not dying. Some areas of the hobby are more active than others, but overall we've got a long way to go before the funeral mourners start parading down the street for this hobby. Sports are still a popular form of entertainment, and many people have this innate desire to collect stuff.

The original post was an interesting read.

[4815162342]

Is the OP the official blogger of Net54?

I too am a child of the 80s and 90s, so I know where you're coming from. On Friday I went to lunch with some of the guys that work for me. As we were talking about current events, I realized that I was the only one in the group that experienced the 80s. It was slightly depressing.

[MattyC]

I haven't experienced or encountered people proclaiming the hobby dead at all. It is a very big field with so many different types of cards within it, so it all depends what one is talking about, specifically. It's hard to discuss in the most general terms, because we can't really lump in a Babe Ruth RC or T210 Shoeless Joe with the likes of a 1991 Fleer Wax Case. It is true that the 100t lot of 1988 Fleer Ricky Jordans is not worth much right now.

Yet from the headline cards in the likes of each year's REA and HA auctions, all the way to daily auctions on eBay (where 1986 Donruss Canseco's in PSA 10 still command $75 or so, 84D Mattinglys time and again crack $600, and Registry commons fetch $$$$), the hobby seems downright robust.

[begsu1013]

100% agree so I will reluctantly offer 60% on all book prices of mantles, aarons, ruths, ryans and roses just to bail everyone out or I will trade you my ricky jordans. your call. send them to me quickly, though!

in all seriousness, great write up and use of words and thanks for the knowledge drop on the home alone bandit narrating the wonder years! never knew.

man, what I woulda gave for just a few minutes w. that winnie cooper. woulda been the roughest 61 seconds of her life! ; )

[barrysloate]

The hobby isn't dying, but it would be fair to say its best days are behind it. This doesn't shock me because one of the things I've learned in my 62 years is that things change, everywhere. So to see the hobby change from its peak in say the 1990's is what I would expect, not something that would surprise me.

As I've mentioned I collect large cents, American pennies minted between 1793 and 1857. The typical age for a serious large cent collector is probably somewhere between 45 and 70. Not a lot of young people are jumping in, which is not a great omen for the future of that hobby. But life changes, so what can you do?

And The Wonder Years was one of my favorite shows, and I did know that Daniel Stern was the narrator.

[1963Topps Set]

Actually, I feel the baseball card industry peaked in the late 1980s. In 1989, I was unable to make a dent in the 1970 Topps set. In 1993 I was able to complete the 1959 Topps set. The 1994 baseball strike helped me a lot by killing the industry and getting rid of a lot of profiteers and freeloaders.

[ALR-bishop]

At 65 it is still just a hobby for me. Since it is just a hobby , I do not care if it has peaked or not.

[granite75]

I turned 40 this year, collected Topps cards from 83-89 then sold a huge box of all those cards for peanuts when I went to college.

I didn't start collecting again until last year. Maybe it was turning 40 and feeling nostalgic. I took to collecting Topps Red Sox from 52-89. I spent way more than I should have and made plenty of mistakes overpaying.

There are two things that may drive me away : the card grading racket and the overinflation of newer serial # cards. Both are pretty much the only way to have much hope of passing along a collection worth more than I paid for it, which is really the only way I can justify spending the money right now.

For example, Rafael Devers may be a player my daughter grows up watching. He could be a star, he could flop. Still, I'd like to get his card and hang on to it, but his serial number cards are already hundreds to thousands of dollars. Packs are $5. It's become a form of gambling rather than collecting.

I could get some vintage stars, buy raw and have them graded at $17 a pop plus absurd shipping to gamble my Ted Williams is a PSA 6 and not come back a 4. Otherwise, I've thrown away money like I do buying packs.

Someday I may be comfortable enough not to worry about the costs, but the reality is most of us have to.


Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

[Sierra79]

As a 35 year old, my first memories of cards included going to the corner store and buying 87 topps wax packs of baseball and football (I remember being excited after finding a Bo Jackson 'Future Stars' card of which I still have today - although a little roughed up). As a young kid I didn't care, or even understand, about equating a card with a monetary value. I simply loved the designs and photos of my favorite players (dale murphy at the time). By the early 90's when I was in middle school, kids were trading and buying inserts, scouring the becket price guides like wall street investors. It slowly evolved into valuing the cards because of their...um...value. I remember the 1989 upper deck set that I got for Xmas and watching the Griffey climb in value each month in my becket magazines.

I stopped collecting around 1998. Years later when I got back into the hobby I was amazed at the amount of 'products' that were available, but It just wasn't the same. Kids just don't collect cards as we used to. I recall walking through any major retail store and seeing rack packs and boxes lining the toy section. Now they are put aside next to the cash registers just about anywhere you go. Baseball card promotions could be found everywhere (gas stations, grocery stores, fast food restaurants, cereal boxes, etc.).

These days packs retail packs are priced beyond belief base cards are, for the most part, thrown aside like the wrapper itself as collectors desperately look for a hit.

I believe kids will always collect tangible stuff. But these days with video games, electronics, smart phones, I can understand why cardboard doesn't look as appealing, especially since it cost so much. Also, as scary as it is, more and more kids don't even know who Mickey Mantle was, let alone guys like Mays and Koufax. I am a teacher so I see it first hand every day.

As for me, I collect what I like and treat it only as a hobby. Should that hobby die off (much like stamp collecting) then the silver lining will be cheaper cards that I am looking for.

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

Originally Posted by Sierra79

These days packs retail packs are priced beyond belief base cards are, for the most part, thrown aside like the wrapper itself as collectors desperately look for a hit.

I've noticed this as well. It makes me wonder.... in 30 years when the natural cycle of collecting comes back around for this generation, will base cards hold more appeal and value simply because everyone just threw them out when they ripped the packs as a kid?

Sounds bizarre, I know. But it's always the things that no one saw coming that cause such a stir.

And I say this as someone who just threw out two 5,000 ct. boxes of 2010-2014 Bowman/Bowman Chrome base cards about a month ago.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Sierra79

As a 35 year old, my first memories of cards included going to the corner store and buying 87 topps wax packs of baseball and football (I remember being excited after finding a Bo Jackson 'Future Stars' card of which I still have today - although a little roughed up). As a young kid I didn't care, or even understand, about equating a card with a monetary value. I simply loved the designs and photos of my favorite players (dale murphy at the time). By the early 90's when I was in middle school, kids were trading and buying inserts, scouring the becket price guides like wall street investors. It slowly evolved into valuing the cards because of their...um...value. I remember the 1989 upper deck set that I got for Xmas and watching the Griffey climb in value each month in my becket magazines.

I stopped collecting around 1998. Years later when I got back into the hobby I was amazed at the amount of 'products' that were available, but It just wasn't the same. Kids just don't collect cards as we used to. I recall walking through any major retail store and seeing rack packs and boxes lining the toy section. Now they are put aside next to the cash registers just about anywhere you go. Baseball card promotions could be found everywhere (gas stations, grocery stores, fast food restaurants, cereal boxes, etc.).

These days packs retail packs are priced beyond belief base cards are, for the most part, thrown aside like the wrapper itself as collectors desperately look for a hit.

I believe kids will always collect tangible stuff. But these days with video games, electronics, smart phones, I can understand why cardboard doesn't look as appealing, especially since it cost so much. Also, as scary as it is, more and more kids don't even know who Mickey Mantle was, let alone guys like Mays and Koufax. I am a teacher so I see it first hand every day.

As for me, I collect what I like and treat it only as a hobby. Should that hobby die off (much like stamp collecting) then the silver lining will be cheaper cards that I am looking for.

Time to collect graded Atari videogame cartridges.


(When make the last post for days that ends the thread.., i try to be the closer, so going for the save)

[Jayworld]

I collected "new" product from 1975 to 1983, with the "apex" of my collection in the 1977-79 range; i.e. collecting and building sets from packs. I remember attending my first local baseball card show in 1979 at the Twin 60s Inn in Dallas and was introduced to 1933 Goudey cards and 1951 Bowman cards. I remember being fascinated with the artwork of those cards and have slowly over time started to collect those (especially the Bowman "art" cards of 1950, 1951, 1952) over the years. By 1984, I was essentially "out" of the hobby, and did not start back until 1989-90, in which I tried to buy one set for each year for the years I had missed (1985-90). I have since sold those sets.

Regarding adult vs. kids hobby, I think it is mostly for adults now. I don't see a lot of kids into the hobby. Heaven knows I can't really get my sons interested in baseball cards (the Pokemon and Star Wars craze is still big for them) other than a pack here or there. In fact, I was in the local baseball card shop this week on a Wednesday, which happens to be "trade" day at the shop. It was the first time I had been there on a Wednesday, and there were four gentlemen crowded around a table trading and talking. They were older than me (I'm 48), and as I perused the shop, I listened in on the conversation. They were busy trading/buying new product, with an emphasis on Topps Allen & Ginter cards. They were also buying cases/boxes of product, and the emphasis was on the "pulls." My mind went back to the early days of Baseball Card magazine in 1981 which contained the first articles of baseball cards as an investment, and each issue devoted a section to "what's hot, what's not" in terms of rookie cards and investments. I think that may have been the point (early-to-mid 1980s) that baseball cards became an adult hobby rather than geared towards kids, at least in my mind.

I don't buy modern product anymore. I tried it on and off for a few years in an effort to get back into the hobby. I come from the old way of collecting by building sets, but I found that set building is cost prohibitive now, what with inserts, parallels, etc., etc. And now I just collect vintage, and if I want the thrill of opening up packs or a box of cards, I collect new Japanese baseball cards. It's all about the hobby to me. With few exceptions (counted on one hand), every card or set I've sold from my collection over the years has been at a loss, so to me, it's a hobby.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Jayworld

I collected "new" product from 1975 to 1983, with the "apex" of my collection in the 1977-79 range; i.e. collecting and building sets from packs. I remember attending my first local baseball card show in 1979 at the Twin 60s Inn in Dallas and was introduced to 1933 Goudey cards and 1951 Bowman cards. I remember being fascinated with the artwork of those cards and have slowly over time started to collect those (especially the Bowman "art" cards of 1950, 1951, 1952) over the years. By 1984, I was essentially "out" of the hobby, and did not start back until 1989-90, in which I tried to buy one set for each year for the years I had missed (1985-90). I have since sold those sets.

Regarding adult vs. kids hobby, I think it is mostly for adults now. I don't see a lot of kids into the hobby. Heaven knows I can't really get my sons interested in baseball cards (the Pokemon and Star Wars craze is still big for them) other than a pack here or there. In fact, I was in the local baseball card shop this week on a Wednesday, which happens to be "trade" day at the shop. It was the first time I had been there on a Wednesday, and there were four gentlemen crowded around a table trading and talking. They were older than me (I'm 48), and as I perused the shop, I listened in on the conversation. They were busy trading/buying new product, with an emphasis on Topps Allen & Ginter cards. They were also buying cases/boxes of product, and the emphasis was on the "pulls." My mind went back to the early days of Baseball Card magazine in 1981 which contained the first articles of baseball cards as an investment, and each issue devoted a section to "what's hot, what's not" in terms of rookie cards and investments. I think that may have been the point (early-to-mid 1980s) that baseball cards became an adult hobby rather than geared towards kids, at least in my mind.

I don't buy modern product anymore. I tried it on and off for a few years in an effort to get back into the hobby. I come from the old way of collecting by building sets, but I found that set building is cost prohibitive now, what with inserts, parallels, etc., etc. And now I just collect vintage, and if I want the thrill of opening up packs or a box of cards, I collect new Japanese baseball cards. It's all about the hobby to me. With few exceptions (counted on one hand), every card or set I've sold from my collection over the years has been at a loss, so to me, it's a hobby.

I agree.....hits a hobby.....can also buy lottery tickets and lose a dollar for nothing instead of paying 8 dollars for pack trying to get a 200 dollar card.......at least you get some cards......lots of hobbys involve buying things that you can only resale and a small fraction of the cost .....not sure why everyone is arguing about younger kids being interested....all in all its an aging hobby for sure.......what the true problem is about most of the cards is problems with cards in general.. though baseball is becoming less and less popular..even the real popular sports like football and basketball do not have kids interested in cards so its not just baseball....its the hobby in general


-sucks that now get a blown save...(no longer the last post but maybe can get the 'w')