What cards present you with a moral quandary?

[paulcarek]

I've always admired the beautiful Sanella Babe Ruth card, but have resisted buying one because of the poisonous environment in which it originated. To a (far) lesser extent, the prospect of purchasing a card featuring Pete Rose is, for me, somewhat less than appealing.

What cards have you stayed away from, and why?

[kcohen]

None. One thing that attracts me to collecting baseball cards is that it is an amoral act. To be clear, I'm speaking strictly of collecting, not the business side of it.

[D. Bergin]

Never really thought about it like that regarding the German cards. They made tons of really beautiful sports and non-sports sets during that time period.

Curiously, as much as Jesse Owens embarrassed Hitler, Jesse and other African-American Athletes were featured heavily throughout the various German sets.

[wonkaticket]

None, I collect cardboard. These can include ball players, historical figures, places etc.

Owning a card of somebody or someplace to me doesn't mean you are endorsing or embracing their beliefs, social issues, or in some cases warped historical and political views.

To me if you start to trim down your collecting based upon applying your personal beliefs you’re going to limit yourself to pretty much no cards at all.

Cheers,
John

[Ladder7]

I understand how you feel. I have a friend from Berlin. When he came over here for vacay, he was mystified by our patriotism. About displaying Old Glory, "We wouldn't do that". Seems many Germans are ashamed of their history, understandibly.

Except for the brown spikes, the Sanella shot is gorgeous, as is that entire book. But I stay away from it due to the numbers. There seems to be just too many to have weathered all those assaults, incendiary attacks and general hardships. Unless they chewed on raw sticks of margarine night and day that year, I believe it was produced well beyond 1932-33.

[Matt]

Taking this thread in a different direction, I own an N300 Ewing that I acquired with sharp 45 degree clips to all 4 corners. Given the age of the card, I made the decision to round the corners out so it didn't look as odd. It's in an SGC Authentic slab and I highly doubt, even if cracked, anyone would think that was natural wear, but intentionally 'damaging' a valuable card was a bit of a moral quandary.

[Leon]

I have never cut up an intact, vintage strip card. I just can't do it.

[abothebear]

For moral reasons I try and stay away from Cubs cards, and Steinbrenner era Yankees cards.

[k-dog]

Originally Posted by paulcarek

I've always admired the beautiful Sanella Babe Ruth card, but have resisted buying one because of the poisonous environment in which it originated. To a (far) lesser extent, the prospect of purchasing a card featuring Pete Rose is, for me, somewhat less than appealing.

What cards have you stayed away from, and why?

I have many times wanted to buy Pete Rose cards...but have yet to put one in my collection. I don't really understand why. I don't hate the guy, I think he is one of the best hitters that ever played...yet, there is something that doesn't let me spend the money.

[HercDriver]

While not a baseball card, I have something similar. I have a Ku Klux Klan pocket knife with a clansman featured on the side. It's a very cool knife that was in my grandfather's extensive collection, although it feels a bit evil just holding it. When he died, I took a couple of his knives to include the KKK one since it struck me as being a piece of history. I've thought about selling it once or twice, but I'm not even sure Ebay would let it be be listed and what comments I would get. Maybe someday I'll use it to teach my kids about the dark side of our history...

Take Care,
Geno

[Peter_Spaeth]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Updated-KKK-Klan...-/320663516868

[mark evans]

I have no interest in owning an O.J. card as it would offend me to view it. I would probably have one were he not a murderer.

Mark

[Bridwell]

I have an N300 Mayo in beautiful condition, except that it has 3 black corners and one white corner tip. I really wanted to touch it up with a marker, but somehow I held off. Eventually, I sent it to PSA as is and got a 6 on it which is still pretty good for a Mayo.

[bobbyw8469]

Ditto the OJ card.....not quite sure how I feel about that one!

[SteveMitchell]

To paraphrase (roughly) Judge Landis: "Regardless of the outcome of juries or the incompetence of Major League Baseball, no player that throws a ball game, no player that entertains proposals or promises to throw a game, no player that sits in a conference with a bunch of crooked players where the ways and means of throwing games are discussed and no player who habitually uses illegal performance-enhancing drugs, and does not promptly tell his club about it (or quit his cheating habit), will ever have his card mounted in normal fashion in any album but shall have it turned upside down." (And that goes for Judge Landis' cards, too.)

[Section103]

I know nobody here is gonna bat an eye, but if you're sensitive enough, you can cast a shadow over every single pre-war card due to segregation of the game. Its not exactly a coincedence that there were no negro league cards produced in the US either.

[Exhibitman]

None. It's just a hobby. But all this morals talk reminds me of an SNL skit that I more or less have made my bedrock life philosophy:



Announcer: "Mr. Mike's Least Loved Bedtime Tales" will not be seen tonight, so that NBC may present the following special program.

[ open on interior, Uncle Remus' log cabin from "Song of the South" ]

[ hear sound of car door opening and closing, followed by second car door opening ]

Mr. Mike: [ outside ] I'll just be a minute, driver.. [ hear door close, as he enters the log cabin ] Hey, Uncle Remus, how are you? Good to see you.

Uncle Remus: I'se mighty hpapy to make yo' acquaintance, Mr. Mike. Y'all come in an' make yo'self to home.

Mr. Mike: Here? Not likely. [ sits down ] Listen, I just dropped by to tell you one of my Least-Loved Bedtime Tales. It's about your old buddy, Brer Rabbit.

Uncle Remus: Brer Rabbit? Why, ah loves dat floppy-eared rascal, Mr. Mike! An' if ah knows Brer Rabbit, he's a-cookin' up some devilment, ain't he?

Mr. Mike: He sure is, Uncle Remus. He's off to trick somebody out of their chickens or something - God knows what - going down the road, hppity-hoppity, hippity-hoppity..

Uncle Remus: An', an' den he sees dis here Tarbaby, right, Mr. Mike? An' Brer Rabbit, dat ole scalywag.. he done up an' wallop him one an' gits hisself all stuck in de tar, an' den..

Mr. Mike: Excuse me. Excuse me, Uncle Remus. There is no Tarbaby. In my story, the Tarbaby was used to repair a pothole. No, you see, Brer Rabbit is going down the road, hippity-hoppity, hippity-hoppity, when he's caught by Brer Fox and Brer Bear.

Uncle Remus: Oh, ah knows, Mr. Mike. An' den they threaten to skin him alive but dat ole crafty rabbit, he say: "Skin me alive; do anything you want, but don't throw me in de briar patch!" So dey throws him in de briar patch an' he gits away! [ laughs ]

Mr. Mike: No, not quite, Uncle Remus. In my story, they respect his wishes and skin him alive. I mean, it's all very amusing to talk about being skinned alive in some children's book, but can you imagine it actually going down? Toward the end, when they were cutting the ears away from the side of the skull, he was screaming: "Throw me in the briar patchl throw me in the molten glass furnace; anything but this!"

Uncle Remus: Oh, dat's just terrible, Mr. Mike. An' den what happen?

Mr. Mike: He died and they ate him.

Uncle Remus: Dey ate Brer Rabbit?!! Oh, Lawdy!

Mr. Mike: Yeah, and sold his feet for lucky charms. The end.

Uncle Remus: "De end?!" But, but, Mr. Mike, what am de moral of your fable?

Mr. Mike: There's no moral, Uncle Remus, just random acts of meaningless violence.

Uncle Remus: Ah doan think I likes dat. Ah doan thinks ah likes dat one bit.

Mr. Mike: [ getting up to leave ] Oh, by the way, I found this dead bluebird outside your shack. [ holds up bloody and decomposed dead bluebird ]

Uncle Remus: Why, Mr. Mike, it's de bluebird of happiness!

Mr. Mike: Yeah, and from the looks of it, it's been there two or three weeks. Put that on your shoulder, pal. [ puts dead bluebird on Uncle Remus' shoulder, then exits the log cabin. Hear sound of car door opening. ] Regine's, and step on it.

[ hear door closing and car driving away, as Uncle Remus stares despondently at the bluebird ]

[ Music Out: "Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah" ]

[calvindog]

Lololol

[BlueDevil89]

I simply can't collect OJ cards any longer. I just can't.

I don't have a problem with Pete Rose cards. I personally don't believe he ever threw a game (would need to see some evidence), even though I'm quite confident he bet on the Reds to win while he was managing games. Then again, I have no problem collecting players from the Black Sox scandal, so why should I hesitate to buy a Pete Rose card?

Not interested in collecting the steriod-player cards. I think of them as cheaters.

The German issue is one I haven't given a lot thought. I guess if I knew that the company issuing the cards was directly responsible for atrocities, I would avoid those cards. However, just because a German company existed and operated during the WWII period, I wouldn't necessarily make an assumption about its politics. I'd have to know there was documentation of direct involvement in or support for the atrocities by the company issuing the cards to make the decision to drop them from my collection.

[E93]

For a long time I resisted Cap Anson because of his role in segregating the game.
JimB

[fkw]

Ive had this 1937 Lou Gehrig Tijuana Bible bookmarked for a couple months now, but cant really see buying it....

Ive seen a dozen over the years FOR SALE, but never seen the inside of one (Leon you have one right?)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=150535569688

[geor952]

Originally Posted by E93

For a long time I resisted Cap Anson because of his role in segregating the game.
JimB

JimB,
As soon as I saw this thread I immediately thought of Mr. Anson. From what I have read his racism was more than just being a product of his times.

This is not on any moral grounds, but on financial. I will not buy any Black Sox 1919-21 w514's. There are seven, but only one or two worth owning (Shoeless Joe & Eddie Cicotte) in my opinion. The others are WAY overpriced, I mean $1,000 for a VG-EX Lefty Williams, really?

A pet peeve of mine is when someone lists the other White Sox in that set as conspirators, players such as Red Faber, Eddie Collins, Ray Schalk, or Dick Kerr. I'd rather have the Reds, Indians, or Giants. At least they won the series 1919-21.

[Section103]

I guess I should have thought of this sooner...Im ashamed I didnt - but basically anyone who ever played on the Dodgers represents a real moral quandry. I get a little sick to my stomach thinking about each one I buy, but they inevitably show up on my collection needs list. I really wish I could just avoid them.

[E93]

Originally Posted by Section103

I guess I should have thought of this sooner...Im ashamed I didnt - but basically anyone who ever played on the Dodgers represents a real moral quandry. I get a little sick to my stomach thinking about each one I buy, but they inevitably show up on my collection needs list. I really wish I could just avoid them.

I feel the same way about Yankees.

[bbcard1]

My biggest moral quandary honestly is if I should be spending money on ball cards when there is so much poverty in the world and shouldn't I be saving for my kid's education. Guilt, my friends, is the common cup of the American whitey.

[quinnsryche]

I won't even look at cards of cheaters like Chase, Gandil (or any of the '19 Sox), Bonds, Sosa, McGwire etc. There are too many good guys and heroes to bother with those scum. Oh, and Cubs too. (GO SOX!)

[abothebear]

Being so distant from the game of 80+ years ago sometimes it is the historical character of a player's career that sets them apart and gives a card a story. When I see a card for sale for someone like Ben Chapman for instance, I can't really conceptualize his game in the same way I can for someone like Jim Edmonds or Alan Trammell. But I do recall what I've read of his racism. And in that case, it makes me more interested in his card than I would otherwise be... not because I approve of racism, but because it gives the card a story. It doesn't matter how ugly the story may be, a card that is "common" to me becomes uncommon.

That being said, for players I do know from my own experience, their extra-curricular story sometimes dissuade me from pursuing their cards. I wouldn't refuse a good deal on an A-Rod or Bonds or Clemens card, but I don't look for them either. But in 25 years I might think differently, when their place in the history of the game becomes more permanently engraved in the grand story.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by E93

For a long time I resisted Cap Anson because of his role in segregating the game.
JimB

Hmmm interesting Jim. I agree with you and based off that I can’t begin to imagine how those horrible Cobb cards you own must make you feel knowing how openly racist he was as well. As a fellow board member and good soul the least I could do is take those off your hands, so you can rest at ease. Let me know if you need my address, as a final gesture I’ll cover the shipping.

Cheers,

John

[abothebear]

As I continue to think about it, guys like OJ, Rose, Bonds, and the like, still are in the process of being judged by history. This may make associating with them via collecting their cards awkward for some. But go back 50 years and judgement has been passed and virtually fixed on those guys. By associating with them via collecting their cards the judgement is included, accounted for, and can add to the collecting value.