Heritige red ink -how fight fraud

[1952boyntoncollector]

I note that early topps red ink heritage cards there was a sticker in the back that with an original number that topps could match up to determine if the card was legit

it looks like the later on the red ink cards there is no longer the sticker but just a scribbled on top of card 11/69 or whatever out of how many cards made.

who scribbles that? whats to prevent 2 cards both having 11/69 on them scribbled on that....not sure why they didnt make a real number as part of the card itself.... maybe there is more to it to protect the authenticity and forgive me on that and let me know....if not only a matter of time when we see two cards both with 11/69 on them no?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I note that early topps red ink heritage cards there was a sticker in the back that with an original number that topps could match up to determine if the card was legit

it looks like the later on the red ink cards there is no longer the sticker but just a scribbled on top of card 11/69 or whatever out of how many cards made.

who scribbles that? whats to prevent 2 cards both having 11/69 on them scribbled on that....not sure why they didnt make a real number as part of the card itself.... maybe there is more to it to protect the authenticity and forgive me on that and let me know....if not only a matter of time when we see two cards both with 11/69 on them no?

It doesn’t make sense that they would. First, the auto cards are differently printed and say “certified autograph issue”, so someone can’t take a base card and turn it into a fake red ink auto.

The majority of the cards will appear for public sale as few open to keep anymore. The big names are followed very closely every year. If Topps produced twice as many, 2 with each number, say, then we’d quickly catch them at it and Blowout would be going nuts over the two different 11/73’s of the same player. It’s never happened.

Also, it could get Topps into legal trouble. The pack odds come out about right to have the correct number of each one as compared to every other numbered insert. As I understand it, they are required to disclose the odds of what they advertise as being possible. Intentionally lying about it could, as I understand it and I am not a lawyer, get them into hot water for little to no gain.

[steve B]

The companies all got a lot more vague about insert odds. If I remember the last few years right, many recent Topps packs don't have odds for the more difficult cards, just the production numbers or nothing at all.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by G1911

It doesn’t make sense that they would. First, the auto cards are differently printed and say “certified autograph issue”, so someone can’t take a base card and turn it into a fake red ink auto.

The majority of the cards will appear for public sale as few open to keep anymore. The big names are followed very closely every year. If Topps produced twice as many, 2 with each number, say, then we’d quickly catch them at it and Blowout would be going nuts over the two different 11/73’s of the same player. It’s never happened.

Also, it could get Topps into legal trouble. The pack odds come out about right to have the correct number of each one as compared to every other numbered insert. As I understand it, they are required to disclose the odds of what they advertise as being possible. Intentionally lying about it could, as I understand it and I am not a lawyer, get them into hot water for little to no gain.

you could erase a blue ink card and change to a red ink both have the same insert base...sometimes theres a 10x price differnce....why not keep the serial number on the card...one more thing harder to copy..

[G1911]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

you could erase a blue ink card and change to a red ink both have the same insert base...sometimes theres a 10x price differnce....why not keep the serial number on the card...one more thing harder to copy..

I’m not saying hand number is better, just that it doesn’t enable ‘secret’ higher production.

It would be pretty ballsy to erase a real auto and substitute a fake one. Not saying that won’t happen, but that’s as gutsy as alterations can get

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by G1911

I’m not saying hand number is better, just that it doesn’t enable ‘secret’ higher production.

It would be pretty ballsy to erase a real auto and substitute a fake one. Not saying that won’t happen, but that’s as gutsy as alterations can get

right not saying secret higher production, its card doctor issue making a less expensive card to more expensive..wasnt the t206 wagner doctored, people willing to be gusty if pays 10x more etc.. Plus it would be a pretty easy fix to avoid fraud on the red inks..

[G1911]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

right not saying secret higher production, its card doctor issue making a less expensive card to more expensive..wasnt the t206 wagner doctored, people willing to be gusty if pays 10x more etc.. Plus it would be a pretty easy fix to avoid fraud on the red inks..

If they’re going to go as far as erasing real autos to forge autos in a different ink, they can also stamp a gold foil /73 number. That’s a lot easier to fake than an auto.

[1952boyntoncollector]

but on the older heritage cards there was a ID number for each card

the foil dont and not sure why heritage stopped

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

but on the older heritage cards there was a ID number for each card

the foil dont and not sure why heritage stopped

Because the website doesn't really allow you to look those cert numbers up, does it? I know Upper Deck's site lost its database of early cert sticker numbers. I never see anyone referencing a part of the Topps website where you can verify the sticker.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Because the website doesn't really allow you to look those cert numbers up, does it? I know Upper Deck's site lost its database of early cert sticker numbers. I never see anyone referencing a part of the Topps website where you can verify the sticker.

so a scribbled 3/69 solves all that.

heck turning a 7/69 to a 1/69 could increase the value

[swarmee]

You argue just to argue sometimes. People have also been known to take those stickers off one card and move them to another to give it more "authenticity."

Scammers gonna scam.

Since Topps is now a part of Fanatics, talk to them and see if they'll take your advice.

[packs]

The Heritage cards you're talking about are at least a decade old. Every current release includes a certified auto tag on the card. If you're suggesting people can erase the blue signature and resign it with a red one, I invite you to try.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by swarmee

You argue just to argue sometimes. People have also been known to take those stickers off one card and move them to another to give it more "authenticity."

Scammers gonna scam.

Since Topps is now a part of Fanatics, talk to them and see if they'll take your advice.

pot calling the kettle black on argue just to argue sometimes. I dont think bringing up potential fraud issues isnt bad to bring up even if concerns dont mean much this time to people i would always want to hear anyone that thinks fraud is an issue on any type of card..

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

The Heritage cards you're talking about are at least a decade old. Every current release includes a certified auto tag on the card. If you're suggesting people can erase the blue signature and resign it with a red one, I invite you to try.

well there are cards like the Mays that there was no 1/65 on the card because new ones were issues because eddie matthews cards never materialized so they sent mays cards, wouldnt be hard to scribble a number on it...its not all about blue turning to red signatures...