1893 Just So Tobacco

[Archive]

Posted By: Preece1

I have only heard of 3 Hall of Famers known to exist (Cy Young, John Clarkston, and Jesse Burkett). Does anyone know if the Buck Ewing card has been found. It would only seem logical that a Buck Ewing card was originally produced since he was a star for the Cleveland Spiders in 1893.

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

To my knowledge no Ewing has been found, but you never know what is secretly lurking in someone's collection.

[Archive]

Posted By: Bryan Long

I know that some posters on here do not like to let lose what is in their collections but I am curious as to what Just So cards exist in the networ54 community. I know one member has a Childs even though I can't remember who and another has the burkett - I think. Any others out there? I would love to have pictures of this whole set. Plus, my birthday was not to long ago if someone wants to send me one

[Archive]

Posted By: Hal Lewis

There is no longer a Burkett from 1893.

There is, however, now a "stabilized" version from 2005.

But that's a whole 'nother thread.

[Archive]

Posted By: Bryan Long

I forgot about the one that is being . . . fixed I do remember now. I still want to see the final product though. Surely, there are more in the group than just the two. Are they really that rare? I thought that pretty much all the rare cards in the world were owned by someone who either posts or lurks here.

[Archive]

Posted By: Preece1

There are currently 3 known Hall of Famers (Burkett, Young, and Clarkston) in this set, and 1 known of each. The fourth Hall of Famer that played for the 1893 Cleveland Spiders, Buck Ewing, has not yet been found in a Just So card (unless someone is keeping that information secret).

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

The Burkett is still from 1893. ALL of it. It just looks presentable now as opposed to before. It's also the only known rookie HOF'er of Burkett. . And by some folks standards THE BEST IN THE WORLD !!!! ....best regards

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

The six that I auctioned in January 1998 were: Chief Zimmer, George Cuppy, Jack O'Connor, Cupid Childs, Patsy Tebeau, and Ed McKean. And I sold a G.W. Davies in an SCD ad in 1997. So along with the HOFers that confirms ten. And there are others known for sure.

[Archive]

Posted By: john/z28jd

Of the ones you sold Barry,were any of them trimmed to the degree of the Burkett or was that an isolated case?

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

No, none were trimmed at all. The Burkett was from a different source. The six I sold came with the Cy Young. They were originally owned by a family who just inherited them; they weren't collectors. The ones I had ranged from about VG to weak excellent, but all were original. Interestingly, seven years ago grading was not that popular, so we sold them raw. That would never happen today.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jim Clarke

I have not seen many of these lately for sale other than the private auction in Florida a couple of months ago... JC

http://www.zmotive.com/gallery/album04?page=16

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Hey JC- those are two of them all right. I guess they graded out pretty well. A few had some creasing- those may have been the best two.

[Archive]

Posted By: Bryan Long

If anyone could supply me with scans of any Just So cards that would be great. I'm trying to get a virtual collection of the cards so that I can say I own the set:) If anyone could help that would be great. I couldn't get the website up that was mentioned earlier to get those scans.
Thanks.

[Archive]

Posted By: Andy Baran

I will post a scan of the Burkett when I get it back. I don't believe that anyone has a real scan of the Cy Young, but I could be wrong.

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

I have a black and white photocopy of the Cy Young, but I would need permission from the owner to share it. I have color photocopies of the six I auctioned in 1998. Of course, with my limited computer skills, I don't even know how to scan (my wife scans for me) and she couldn't figure out how to post a scan on network54. But I can scan the color photocopies I have to anyone who provides an email address (probably not until tomorrow) or if you send me an SASE I can make another set of color photocopies for you (they would cost a dollar, if you choose to reimburse me). In the meantime, I'll ask the owner of the Cy Young if it's O.K. to share the photocopy (it's a tad grainy, but it is clear).

[Archive]

Posted By: Bryan Long

Just send me an address for you and I can send out a SASE to you as soon as possible. I scan them myself once they arrive. Thanks for you troubles.
Bryan

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Barry Sloate, 231 Clinton Street, Brooklyn, N.Y. 11201

[Archive]

Posted By: Bryan Long

for sending me the pictures of the cards that you auctioned off. They will work great for virtual collection.

[Archive]

Posted By: Andy Baran

The current owner of this card (not me) has asked me to post this image. I'm not sure if he wants to divulge his name, so I will leave it up to him to do so if he would like. I should have the Just So Tobacco Burkett back in the next few weeks.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Koteles

is actually mine....if you want to sell it !!!

Incredible ... "just so" happens that I believe with all of you mad doggies out there....I'll never get one !

Whoever said that money can't buy happiness ?

[Archive]

Posted By: Preece1

I own the Clarkson card. I tried to post the scan earlier but I had some computer issues. I am sorry, but the card is not for sale or trade.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Koteles

who said money can't buy happiness ...is that someone paid dearly for this and is happy-Good Evening

[Archive]

Posted By: Andy Baran

I picked up the restored Just So Burkett today, and I am very pleased with the results. The card has been put back into it's original form, but it is very easy to detect that it has been restored.

Before:




After:

[Archive]

Posted By: Preece1

They did a great job!

[Archive]

Posted By: Hal Lewis

Looks nice!!!

Fresh out of the pack!!

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave Terwilliger aka murcerfan

..but the border frame line looks funky enough that most experts would not get fooled...realizing,of course, that was not the intent of the restoration.

FWIW...I would not hesitate to have work like this done on such a unique piece.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jim Clarke

Looks very nice. I wonder how the auction companies would write up the description on it??

[Archive]

Posted By: Kevin Cummings

Andy:

I know there was a lot of negative feeling about the restoration process, but I think you made the right choice. I would have done the same (if I actually could have afforded it).

Thanks for sharing.

Kevin

[Archive]

Posted By: Rob McKenzie

You could always consign it with kimpossible... but seriously, how do you know that hankron didn't need that actress card for his set..

[Archive]

Posted By: davidcycleback

<< Looks very nice. I wonder how the auction companies would write up the description on it?? >>

"Minor cleaning, mentioned only for accuracy's sake."

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

An auction house can sell anything in any condition as long as they tell the truth and disclose everything they know about it. The Burkett has a vastly improved appearance but it is easy to see it has had some restoration. It is still valuable, still unique, but less valuable than if it were original. But everything has a price. I know Andy is happy with it and he should be and that's the whole story right there.

[Archive]

Posted By: Andy Baran

I agree that it is less valuable than if it were original (unaltered in any way), but I don't believe that it is less valuable than when it was trimmed. The appearance is better, authentic to the issue, and the restoration is reversable (back to the trimmed image).

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

I agree completely. It can't be less valuable; at worst the same and more likely equal to or greater than the cost of the restoration. There is no downside to what you did. Any prospective buyer could reverse it if he wished, but I don't believe anybody would.

[Archive]

Posted By: davidcycleback

Don't know how it applies to cards, but a vintage movie poster expert once told me that a poster restored from Poor to Near Mint is worth more than the Poor and less than the Near Mint. Luckily for movie buffs, movie posters are typically linen backed as part of restoration, so the restored poster is easy to identify.

My opinion is that Andy's card is worth quite a bit more on the market in its restored state than it its trimmed state. It's as simple as I think someone would pay more for the restored version.

If the actress or dancer was particularly good looking, I might indeed object to the process.

[Archive]

Posted By: Peter Thomas

Front looks great you can see the restoration area, but also get a sence of the origional appearance. How does the back of the card look?

[Archive]

Posted By: Paul

I also agree with Andy's decision. I'm just curious to know if the edges of the trimmed original were damaged in any way in the process.

[Archive]

Posted By: Julie

from the beginning.

[Archive]

Posted By: Andy Baran

This is going to be really difficult to explain. There is no evidence of restoration when you look at the card back. The restorers were able to remove the actress image without going all the way through the back of the card. In a sense, they basically "dug" out the image, rather than cutting it out. Therefore, the Burkett image essentially sits in a "tray" that was left behind when the actress image was removed. This is preferable because:

1.) The card is more stable because it was adhered on the back rather than on the edges.

2.) The edges of the trimmed Burkett were not changed or damaged in any way.

3.) The background of the actress card was brown. The outermost edge of the actress image was left to create the border around the Burkett image.

The card looks even better in person than I had hoped it would, and it looks much better than the scans represent. I am very pleased with the process and the results.