Chief Wahoo in the Crosshairs

[Snapolit1]

Ridiculous. Maybe we should have a team with a horrible stereotypical Jewish banker image with a big nose called the Greedy Bankers or a big fat Italian guy in a white tee shirt called the Gangsters. Maybe a German guy who looks like a Nazi. Yeah, obviously that wouldn't fly for a nanosecond.

The fact that US Indians who are on one of the very lowest socioeconomic rungs of our society and are basically struggling to put food in their kids mouths most days have other things to worry about hardly makes it right. Drove through Indian reservations in North Dakota last summer. Not surprised to hear American baseball mascots are not high on their list of worries.

[packs]

To be fair that article only addresses a survey of 500 Native Americans. There are 5.2 million Native Americans in the US (2010 census). But even if you want to give it credence, the survey was only about the name of the Redskins. They didn't ask about how Native Americans feel about being portrayed in the Cleveland logo, which I think we should be able to agree is a less than flattering stereotype.

[Tripredacus]

I have come to like the modern Indians logo, Chief Wahoo not the red C. Well I guess the red C is fine too, but it is kinda boring even when they used it in the 80s and had the block letter uniforms. There is just something about the whole color scheme they came up with in the mid 90s when they got good. The dark blue with Chief Wahoo and the red brim, the dark blue jerseys. It looks really nice.

The part I do not get is that people are on such a crusade about a team and how "they" think it is portraying a certain people, yet there is no big hubaloo about the actual problems those people have. It makes me wonder if the Redskins and Indians (and it would need to include the other team that use the name like Kingston and Springfield) and whatever other teams get their names and logos taken away, that no one will them remember these types of people.

It is these stories of these sports teams with their names and logos that keeps those stories alive. It might sound like a bad thing to say.

[packs]

I don't notice a push to change the team name from Indians, people would just like them to stop using a stereotypical image of an Indian as the logo.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't notice a push to change the team name from Indians, people would just like them to stop using a stereotypical image of an Indian as the logo.

Yes, but if you get rid of Chief Wahoo, there's no point in the team name.

[packs]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Yes, but if you get rid of Chief Wahoo, there's no point in the team name.

What do you mean? The Chiefs are the Chiefs without using a stereotype. The Braves are the Braves still despite doing away with their screaming Indian logo. Why can't the Indians do the same? If the point of calling themselves the Indians is to honor Native Americans, what end does using a stereotype image like that accomplish?

[PM770]

Originally Posted by packs

To be fair that article only addresses a survey of 500 Native Americans. There are 5.2 million Native Americans in the US (2010 census). But even if you want to give it credence, the survey was only about the name of the Redskins. They didn't ask about how Native Americans feel about being portrayed in the Cleveland logo, which I think we should be able to agree is a less than flattering stereotype.

I thought that the use of the term "Redskins" was the most egregious offense of all sports names/logos. To now say it is the Chief Wahoo logo is goal post shifting.

[packs]

Well this is a thread about the Chief Wahoo logo not the name of the Redskins and another poster posted that survey in this thread. I don't think it has anything to do with Chief Wahoo either. But I also think it's disingenuous to say that a poll of 1 percent of all Native Americans means that 90 percent of them feel the same way as less than 1 percent do.

[JustinD]

I think it's definitely caused by national outcry more than local. I am not a fan of any of these teams and as a detroiter, unless the feline sjw's start complaints about using lions or tigers, I am pretty safe.

However, I don't need people to step in and tell me what is good for me or what I should believe. If any of the naming issues were of great concern to the world the teams would have changed already as people would have already voted with their wallets.

If you want change don't buy merch or tickets. If enough people do that change will come, if it doesn't then you must accept you are in minority on your issue.

My personal opinion and why I stay unconcerned with an Chippewa exwife and a son who is a tribal member. (Not that it makes me any expert, just context)

[PM770]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

The fact that US Indians who are on one of the very lowest socioeconomic rungs of our society and are basically struggling to put food in their kids mouths most days have other things to worry about hardly makes it right. Drove through Indian reservations in North Dakota last summer. Not surprised to hear American baseball mascots are not high on their list of worries.

Isn't that the point? They are sports logos. The people that are supposed to be offended by these things greet it with a gigantic "meh", to an extremely large degree (90% is a massive majority in any poll of this nature). Some even like the name.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by PM770

Isn't that the point? They are sports logos. The people that are supposed to be offended by these things greet it with a gigantic "meh", to an extremely large degree (90% is a massive majority in any poll of this nature). Some even like the name.

Whatever. . . .sure many folks on Indian reservations are happy they are inundated with alcohol on their reservations and have astonomical alcoholism rates . . . still doesn't make it a good thing.

Somehow we've gotten to a point where caring about other people being treated decently is a vice.

[Section103]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Somehow we've gotten to a point where caring about other people being treated decently is a vice.

I didnt read all the way through the thread or even what your comment was in response to; but this particular statement resonates with me. Sometimes the tone of those who are "anti-PC" certainly comes across as if people just cant even be bothered to treat people with respect or address someone in a simple manner they prefer to be addressed.


Aside from that, I think mascots with a heritage theme can be done and done so properly. Chief Wahoo is, simply put, a caricature. Caricatures based on heritage, in particular minority heritages; are on slippery ground. Caricatures based on heritage that are also NOT native and common to the heritage are just asking for trouble.

If you're gonna do it, do it right. Do it honoring a specific faction. Do it with the input of those particular people. Otherwise, you're just kidding yourself.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Whatever. . . .sure many folks on Indian reservations are happy they are inundated with alcohol on their reservations and have astonomical alcoholism rates . . . still doesn't make it a good thing.

Somehow we've gotten to a point where caring about other people being treated decently is a vice.

hyperbolic bull$hit quotes like this are why everyone is getting sick to death of a certain side's mamby pamby identity crap.

Remember back in the 80's when christian groups complained about TV programs being too violent or sexy and the response was "you have a dial on your TV use it" well, you have a choice of sports team to support, make your choice and let the rest of us make ours. Your opinion means nothing, being offended is nothing but a whine for attention and an attempt to make everyone do your bidding like a foot stomping toddler.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

hyperbolic bull$hit quotes like this are why everyone is getting sick to death of a certain side's mamby pamby identity crap.

Remember back in the 80's when christian groups complained about TV programs being too violent or sexy and the response was "you have a dial on your TV use it" well, you have a choice of sports team to support, make your choice and let the rest of us make ours. Your opinion means nothing, being offended is nothing but a whine for attention and an attempt to make everyone do your bidding like a foot stomping toddler.

Well said.

[Snapolit1]

Actually one of the most ridiculous comments I've ever read on the board. No offense intended of course.
Were the people who published articles and expressed opinions that slavery was wrong toddlers who were looking for attention? How about people who stood up for the Jews in Nazi Germany? Were they toddlers too? How about people in the 1960s who said it was wrong that blacks and white couldn't marry? How about people who stepped forward and said homosexuals really shouldn't be thrown in jail for no reason? Yeah, I guess just more toddlers expressing their views and stamping their feet.

Being offended is nothing but a whine. Does that apply to people who have an issue with Kapernick, or just people with different political or social views than you?

[pclpads]

Thank you for more of your hyperbolic bull$hit. Comparing the weak examples you cited as being comparable to Indian logs for sports teams is apples and orangutans. Chief Wahoo and the WA Redskins is not even close to Jews being gassed in Nazi Germany.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Ridiculous. Maybe we should have a team with a horrible stereotypical Jewish banker image with a big nose called the Greedy Bankers or a big fat Italian guy in a white tee shirt called the Gangsters. Maybe a German guy who looks like a Nazi. Yeah, obviously that wouldn't fly for a nanosecond.

The fact that US Indians who are on one of the very lowest socioeconomic rungs of our society and are basically struggling to put food in their kids mouths most days have other things to worry about hardly makes it right. Drove through Indian reservations in North Dakota last summer. Not surprised to hear American baseball mascots are not high on their list of worries.

+1

Who cares if they are offended are not. Marginalizing a group of people is either right nor wrong. It drips with irony that some of my best friends are bed-wetting socialists who fall all over themselves in an attempt to claim the Redskins is not a racist name. The percentages of Native Americans who find the name insensitive or not is 100% irrelevant.