Having it Both Ways (Dealer Gripe)

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by bnorth

. The average guy on eBay has no overhead and does not pay taxes(the thing that pays for all the stuff we take for granted).

As a seller on ebay, once all of the fees, expenses, paypal costs, etc are added up, the total accounts for almost 28% of my income. When I set up at shows, my expenses were about an equal percent of my income.

Breaking down my income by percent, COG=42%, Expenses=28% and profit =30%.

You may ask about why that 28% is so high when ebay FVF=10% and paypal is FVF is 3%. Here are several things to consider....with the total fees I paid to paypal, over a third of the total amount paid to paypal are the 30 cent transaction fees. The 10% in FVFs paid to ebay does not include the cost of the monthly store fee. Part of my expenses are my s/h costs....10% of my total income goes to cover s/h costs. If you back out my s/h income/expenses, my ebay/pp fees are 18% of my income.

As far as taxes, due to the number of transactions I complete , I receive a 1099K from paypal, so after my accountant figures in all of my deductions, I have an effective tax rate of 17-18% of my profit.

When I sold at shows, all of my income was cash....no taxes paid.

After spending some time on a "tri state" show circuit in my area, I much prefer selling online from home, but my expenses are far greater selling from home.


While most sellers do not sell enough to receive a 1099k, my guess is most ebay sellers have a similar percent breakdown of total income(before taxes) on their expense portion.

[hcv123]

SO many opinions - that's what makes the world go 'round.....so I'll chime in with my 2 cents. I was a part time dealer for about 10 years, setting up at shows large and small. I have been an avid collector for the better part of 30. For me pricing has been more a function of supply and demand as well as my knowledge of a card(s) that I have for sale. For example if I am selling a card that 10 other guys in the room/on ebay are likely to have in comparable condition - I choose to compete on price to make the sale. It is as if more of a commodity and the sale of it is most likely to be influenced by price. If on the other hand I am selling something I know to be rare or possibly unique - I know I have a lot of room to price it high and be firm. I have sold items that I am most certain I will never own again in my life - I will wait for the collector who understands and is willing to pay. As a buyer/collector I do the opposite - Negotiate hard on commoditized cards and willing to pay high for the rare ones.
I think many forget the "book" is a "guide" - not a current buy/ask. I know my inventory or what I am looking for well (most of the time). I encourage you to do the same.
Regarding OP - definitely a bit frustrating if a dealer is using the "book" in some cases and not in others.

[SMPEP]

I'm with Adam. As someone who is a weekend warrior that has only ever set up at his shows, most of my stuff (the commoditized stuff - especially lower grade conditioned of commoditized cards) are priced to move. That's probably 80% of my stuff that I bring.

But I do have another 20% on display that is NOT priced that way. Like Adam they are cards designed to get eyeballs and I'm not really trying to sell them. If you give me a number I can't refuse, okay. But I have no INTENTION of selling them. Those are pieces in my collection that I really prefer to keep.

So why do I bring pieces like this? One, it gets people to look, but more importantly, if I have obscure stuff I'm trying to collect, people will see them and say - "golly, I have one like that." (You'd be amazed how many times the word "Golly" is used at Adam's shows.) And that's when I get to turn the tables and say - "Are you selling?"

When I set up, the best day isn't the day I sold the most. The best day is when I bought something I can't find any other place. I'm still waiting for that walk in Reiser grey back though!

Cheers,
Patrick

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

When I sold at shows, all of my income was cash....no taxes paid.

A 1099 is just a report of how much you received, not how much you profited. Tax fraud is not a business strategy, it is a crime, and a dumb one at that. If you just don't pay taxes at all you will end up in the hobby wing at Leavenworth. Hope Mark Allen is a good cellie...Maybe he'll share his soap on a rope.

Taxes should not be an issue. If you are paying taxes on a profit, that is the same as in any other trade. The question is how do you minimize your tax exposure. There are ways to do it within the confines of a card business but they require planning and organization; I won't discuss the nuts and bolts so as not to be seen as providing legal or accounting advice. But just saying "F*** it" and not paying anything, that is amateurish.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

A 1099 is just a report of how much you received, not how much you profited. Tax fraud is not a business strategy, it is a crime, and a dumb one at that. If you just don't pay taxes at all you will end up in the hobby wing at Leavenworth. Hope Mark Allen is a good cellie...Maybe he'll share his soap on a rope.

Taxes should not be an issue. If you are paying taxes on a profit, that is the same as in any other trade. The question is how do you minimize your tax exposure. There are ways to do it within the confines of a card business but they require planning and organization; I won't discuss the nuts and bolts so as not to be seen as providing legal or accounting advice. But just saying "F*** it" and not paying anything, that is amateurish.

I am quite aware of the purpose of a 1099, not sure why you need to explain the purpose of a 1099 as I NEVER made any mention of a 1099 being used to report profits????


In regards to shows, I set up at about 5 shows a year over a 3-4 year period in order to sell off duplicates and had less than $1k in INCOME at each show. When I figured in my EXPENSES and COG, I had very little PROFIT (which is what I would pay my taxes on). I am quite sure if I needed to pay taxes on that absolute MINISCULE amount that I did make profit wise at the few shows I set up at, my accountant likely could have found some additional deduction to offset it. In some cases, I spent my INCOME from the show on new inventory at the show before leaving.

This would be like my wife reporting the $150 (cash) she "made" at our most recent garage sale as taxable income. Not really worth it.


As mentioned in my above post, to ensure my taxes are handled correctly is why I currently employ an accountant to handle my taxes...this allows me to minimize my tax exposure with my online selling and to ensure I am not ending up with Mark Allen.

My guess is almost EVERY member of this board (who lives in an applicable state) is guilty of not declaring and paying their state's usage tax on their out of state online purchases. Since I am set up as a sole proprietorship, I avoid paying these usage taxes in my state on any of the purchases I make in order to resell through my "business". There is a lot more exposure in regards to use taxes not being paid than weekend warriors who after expenses and COG make $50 profit at a card show.

Perhaps it is common at the shows you run for all of the sellers to report every dime of their income....in my area, in speaking with the dealers set up at the shows I did, I met just one dealer who did report his income. For this one dealer, card selling is his profession while the rest of these dealers were weekend warriors unloading their duplicates for very little if any PROFIT.