Incredible eBay find that never materialized (newly discovered info on 6/26!!!)

[sterlingfox]

So what you're saying is that Joe, or whoever the original buyer of the card is who offered more to maxcollector69, did nothing wrong? You even said yourself that's something you wouldn't do! Are you flipping serious!?!?

And Joe being the only other known owner of the card is plenty enough evidence to suspect him of being the buyer.

Where's the proof that Joe took the card in on trade? That's right. There's none!

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

Brian You and the OP do not have have not a single shread of evidence that Joe bought the card from maxcollector69. Joe responded to the OP and answered his question on how he acquired the card. The card was not stolen so it would be wrong for him to tell you or anyone the name of who traded him the card. Again it is none of your business.
Don't you get that it is wrong to say things like I would bet anyone he is "guilty" and "stop by his booth at the national" without any proof that he did anything unethical. Who appointed you guys judge jury and executioner?
I personally would not contact an Ebay seller and offer him more for an item after it already sold. But in this case the only person who acted in a way that harmed the OP is MAXCOLLECTOR69. He made the decision to not ship the card and to lie about why. He made the decision to sell the card to someone else. Joe took the card in on trade NOTHING UNETHICAL OR ILLEGAL about that. If it was then I have been a criminal since I was 8 years old and started trading baseball cards.

As for Tim yes a promise is a promise and stupid is as stupid does. Next time please read the post and if you don't understand it ..then best not to respond to it.

I would suggest that you 3 owe an apology to Joe but I know self righteous guys like you rarely have the guts to admit you were wrong. And that a complete lack of evidence only makes the conspiracy more real. But standing up for the wrongly accused (Those accused despite any evidence to indicate they did anything wrong) is always the right thing to do. If Joe did anything at all wrong I think it will come out but you don't convict people and wait for the evidence to show up.
Jonathan Sterling

[rdixon1208]

Originally Posted by sterlingfox

So what you're saying is that Joe, or whoever the original buyer of the card is who offered more to maxcollector69, did nothing wrong? You even said yourself that's something you wouldn't do! Are you flipping serious!?!?

And Joe being the only other known owner of the card is plenty enough evidence to suspect him of being the buyer.

Where's the proof that Joe took the card in on trade? That's right. There's none!

This is where I think you're wrong. I understanding you suspecting him of being the buyer, but you're actually accusing him of it and demanding that he provide proof when you don't actually have any hard data to support your claim. That card could have changed hands multiple times between maxcollector69 and the guy who has it for sale now.

Robert Dixon

[BLongley]

Sure it could have, but joe doesn't seem to want to chime in, hence the suspection.... we have seen maxcollector69 have it, cancel the sale due to his kids destroying the card, and a few weeks later now have seen it reappear in joes inventory after he traded an expensive autograph for it...and according to Dmitry he wouldn't even say who it was an autograph of (not who the trade was with)... just who the auto was...

And what other hard data can he get? It is his business because he had a binding contract of purchase with maxcollector69 and was canceled with a lie. The fact that Joe can clearly see it was canceled with a lie, he may want to help Dmitry understand what he knows of the transaction, but has chosen not to, which causes many suspicions....

Originally Posted by rdixon1208

This is where I think you're wrong. I understanding you suspecting him of being the buyer, but you're actually accusing him of it and demanding that he provide proof when you don't actually have any hard data to support your claim. That card could have changed hands multiple times between maxcollector69 and the guy who has it for sale now.

Robert Dixon

[Marchillo]

I feel for the OP 100%. My great deals have been few and far between and thinking of not receiving one is devastating.

I think everyone agrees - the original seller with the false story is scum. I would never do business with them (if i actually remember them when coming across an item).

As for Joe - Not sure there is a right or wrong answer here but I think its dangerous to accuse someone as is being done here. I don't think Joe owes it to anyone to tell how he acquired the card, yet he told the OP that it was acquired by trade. I agree with Joe not giving up the name of the person he traded with. I honestly don't think he owes anyone anything at this point assuming this is the truth and the trade he mentions wasn't by him initiating a call on an item that already sold.

If Joe comes on here to defend himself and says "Like I told the OP, I acquired this card in a trade" - will that satisfy everyone?

What if Joe comes on here and says "Like I told the OP, I acquired this card in a trade, but will not reveal who I traded with" - will that satisfy everyone?

What if Joe comes on here and says "Like I told the OP, I acquired this card in a trade, I will not reveal who i traded with but I can tell you its not from the seller of the original listing" - will that satisfy everyone?

I have no relationship with Joe and for all I know Joe could have done some shenanigans in this whole ordeal. But assuming he didn't I still don't think he owes it to anyone to prove his innocence.

Again I feel for the OP - I don't think he's overreacting and if I were in his shoes i might say the same things even though I think they are dangerous things to say. Maybe some more information will come to light. It is probably in Joe's best interest to come on here but if he offers the same response he offered to the OP I am not sure where it will get him.

[joed25]

This is Andrew Dwek. Joe Dwek is my brother and partner. Joe and I buy, sell and trade sports memorabilia and autographs.The accusation that we stole this card from Dmitry by offering the ebay seller more is simply false. We traded for the card having no knowledge of any sales or transactions on it. A client was interested in a high end item of our’s and asked if we would consider trading it to him for multiple items. After going back and forth on potential trade pieces over a few days we agreed on a package of multiple items coming our way in exchange for the one high end item in our store. One of the items we received was this card.

We rarely deal in vintage cards unless they're autographed. In all of our years of doing this, we have never once bought a vintage graded card unless it was included in a package that consisted mainly of autographs and memorabilia. We don't follow card auctions and sales and never have bid on card auctions or listings of any kind. We certainly would never make an offer to a seller after an ebay sale had completed. We wouldn't do so even if the item was right is in our wheelhouse and we’d be able to make a quick profit on it. We certainly wouldn't do it on a vintage card for which we have no real feel for and have no clients/buyers for. While we've been the victim of such practices countless times we would never engage in such business practices. We love what we do, feel blessed to be able to dedicate so much time to the hobby and believe there's enough good and legitimate business out there.

To prove I'm saying the truth I'm willing to show our conversations and communications with this trade client to a net54 board member. I would do so in person, either now in New Jersey or at the national. I will show the proof of the trade to a neutral person, not someone who was affected by the cancelled ebay sale or feels they incurred a loss. The client’s identity will remain anonymous.

After we listed the card for sale in our ebay store, Dmitry messaged us about the cancelled ebay sale. We immediately offered to talk to him on the phone to explain what had happened. Attached are the ebay messages:

[joed25]

I see the photos are not clear so here is the ebay conversation transcribed:

OP: Did you purchase this from maxcollector69?

Me: No.

OP: Are you selling it as a consignment for someone else then? I'm asking because I purchased
and paid for this card from eBay user maxcollector69 about a month ago. The order was then
cancelled and refunded before it shipped. Whoever bought it stole it from me by offering the
seller more, and I need to know who did that to me. If not you, then I need to know who. If you
can't provide that info then I'll assume it was you.

Me: No I am not.

OP: Then it was you who stole this card from me. Thanks for clearing that up.
I will be making sure your eBay business suffers as much as possible.
It will be the biggest mistake you've ever made in your life by the time I'm finished with you.
maxcollector69 is already feeling the effects of the part that he played in this.
Expect to also hear from MANY others who have already heard my story, and know exactly
what you did.

Me: This is the fourth email I got from someone saying he bought this card. I know almost
nothing about cards. I am an autograph dealer. I only get cards in trades. Someone traded
me this card for an expensive autograph. To think that I would follow an eBay sale of this
card and message the seller after to sell it to me is a little crazy as I don’t deal in cards
and I wouldn’t know what a dietshe postcard is if it hit me in the head. Hope this clears
things up.

OP: Again, unless I get specific details on who you got this card from, I will assume it was you who
stole it from me.
Others are messaging you on MY behalf.
Check eBay sales within the last 90 days and you'll see this card sold for $1200 as a BUY IT
NOW. I was the buyer.
The seller cancelled on me after I paid. Someone offered maxcollector69 more to cause the
cancellation.
Unless you tell me who you got this card from, I'll have to assume it was YOU!
And selling it for $6K tells me you know A LOT about this card.
DO NOT attempt to lie to me. IT WILL NOT WORK!

Me: I told you exactly what happened with this card. Obviously I can research a cards value.
But I am not a Card dealer and it is ludicrous to think that I would follow an eBay Auction
and message him after on an obscure card that I don’t deal in. I would never do such a
thing. Also I don’t appreciate being threatened.

OP: I'm asking you one last time, who did you get this card from? I won't ask again...

And I don't appreciate being lied to and stolen from. Even if it wasn't you, if you don't tell me
who you got this card from, then you're covering for the perp, which makes you just as
responsible! And I still think it was you!

Me: I am available to speak after 11 am est. Feel free to
call.

OP: I work during the day and come home to 3 young children, so I don't have the time to call
anyone.
I'm just asking for proof that you didn't get the card from maxcollector69. That should be easy
enough to provide.
Right now all evidence points to you.

Me: After work is fine. I have 4 little kids as well. Thanks

OP: Who should I ask for when calling?
I'm still going to need real proof.
Telling me something like you made a trade with a stranger at a show won't cut it for me.

Me: Joe.
It was not at a show. It was from someone who buys from me

OP: That won't help either of us, unfortunately, and eliminates the need for a phone call. I would hope
that you don't engage in large transactions like that without first getting some personal info from your
trading partner, but it doesn't seem like you did that. It's a situation like this that you could have
avoided. That is, if any of what you're saying is true. As far as I can see, you can't prove anything,
but I can prove you're in possession of the Cobb. That's all I'll need.

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. I'll need a full name, email address, and if you have it,
eBay user ID and home address of your trading partner.

Me: Of course I have the persons name but I’m not going to give the name of one of my
clients. Call me. You will see I’m honest and I would never do such a horrible thing. I
definitely feel your pain. All the best, Joe

OP: Hi Joe, I really want to believe you, but this isn't looking good for you without any proof or
willingness to cooperate.
I'm sure you're already getting messages from people who will vow to never do business with
you again - you'll be getting much more of this over the coming days, weeks and months. I
have a lot of influence on the card collecting community, and have no issues reaching out to
the memorabilia side as well.
I will need that name and email address to let you off the hook.
If you have any sympathy at all about this situation, you'll do the right thing and make sure that
the right person is exposed for what they did.

Me: Let’s talk when you are
free.

OP: I appreciate your willingness to reach out and speak to me, but nothing short of your client's
information will help either of us.
Covering for your client makes you just as guilty, unfortunately.

Me: With all due respect I think if you were in my shoes you would not want to give a clients
information. I really think it will be a benefit to talk. Please call. Thanks. Joe

OP: I would happily provide their information if I was given proof that they were potentially
engaging in such devious behavior. I'd also never do business with them again, but it's
obvious that you value their business more than your own ethics.
It's possible there was another exchange before it reached your client, but that will need to be
researched.
As it stands, the ball is in your court, and you're still covering for your client. That's all I need to
know.

Me: Again I am willing to talk. I don’t want to fight with you. I would never do anything like
some people are suggesting. I cannot give a clients name. If you change your mind and
are willing to talk I am always available. I wish you the best. Joe

OP: You've taken your stance and I've taken mine. I just hope you can accept the consequences of
your actions.

[joed25]

Some more photos.

[joed25]

Here are some more photos

[Scott L.]

Originally Posted by joed25

I see the photos are not clear so here is the ebay conversation transcribed:

OP: Did you purchase this from maxcollector69?

Me: No.

OP: Are you selling it as a consignment for someone else then? I'm asking because I purchased
and paid for this card from eBay user maxcollector69 about a month ago. The order was then
cancelled and refunded before it shipped. Whoever bought it stole it from me by offering the
seller more, and I need to know who did that to me. If not you, then I need to know who. If you
can't provide that info then I'll assume it was you.

Me: No I am not.

OP: Then it was you who stole this card from me. Thanks for clearing that up.
I will be making sure your eBay business suffers as much as possible.
It will be the biggest mistake you've ever made in your life by the time I'm finished with you.
maxcollector69 is already feeling the effects of the part that he played in this.
Expect to also hear from MANY others who have already heard my story, and know exactly
what you did.

Me: This is the fourth email I got from someone saying he bought this card. I know almost
nothing about cards. I am an autograph dealer. I only get cards in trades. Someone traded
me this card for an expensive autograph. To think that I would follow an eBay sale of this
card and message the seller after to sell it to me is a little crazy as I don’t deal in cards
and I wouldn’t know what a dietshe postcard is if it hit me in the head. Hope this clears
things up.

OP: Again, unless I get specific details on who you got this card from, I will assume it was you who
stole it from me.
Others are messaging you on MY behalf.
Check eBay sales within the last 90 days and you'll see this card sold for $1200 as a BUY IT
NOW. I was the buyer.
The seller cancelled on me after I paid. Someone offered maxcollector69 more to cause the
cancellation.
Unless you tell me who you got this card from, I'll have to assume it was YOU!
And selling it for $6K tells me you know A LOT about this card.
DO NOT attempt to lie to me. IT WILL NOT WORK!

Me: I told you exactly what happened with this card. Obviously I can research a cards value.
But I am not a Card dealer and it is ludicrous to think that I would follow an eBay Auction
and message him after on an obscure card that I don’t deal in. I would never do such a
thing. Also I don’t appreciate being threatened.

OP: I'm asking you one last time, who did you get this card from? I won't ask again...

And I don't appreciate being lied to and stolen from. Even if it wasn't you, if you don't tell me
who you got this card from, then you're covering for the perp, which makes you just as
responsible! And I still think it was you!

Me: I am available to speak after 11 am est. Feel free to
call.

OP: I work during the day and come home to 3 young children, so I don't have the time to call
anyone.
I'm just asking for proof that you didn't get the card from maxcollector69. That should be easy
enough to provide.
Right now all evidence points to you.

Me: After work is fine. I have 4 little kids as well. Thanks

OP: Who should I ask for when calling?
I'm still going to need real proof.
Telling me something like you made a trade with a stranger at a show won't cut it for me.

Me: Joe.
It was not at a show. It was from someone who buys from me

OP: That won't help either of us, unfortunately, and eliminates the need for a phone call. I would hope
that you don't engage in large transactions like that without first getting some personal info from your
trading partner, but it doesn't seem like you did that. It's a situation like this that you could have
avoided. That is, if any of what you're saying is true. As far as I can see, you can't prove anything,
but I can prove you're in possession of the Cobb. That's all I'll need.

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. I'll need a full name, email address, and if you have it,
eBay user ID and home address of your trading partner.

Me: Of course I have the persons name but I’m not going to give the name of one of my
clients. Call me. You will see I’m honest and I would never do such a horrible thing. I
definitely feel your pain. All the best, Joe

OP: Hi Joe, I really want to believe you, but this isn't looking good for you without any proof or
willingness to cooperate.
I'm sure you're already getting messages from people who will vow to never do business with
you again - you'll be getting much more of this over the coming days, weeks and months. I
have a lot of influence on the card collecting community, and have no issues reaching out to
the memorabilia side as well.
I will need that name and email address to let you off the hook.
If you have any sympathy at all about this situation, you'll do the right thing and make sure that
the right person is exposed for what they did.

Me: Let’s talk when you are
free.

OP: I appreciate your willingness to reach out and speak to me, but nothing short of your client's
information will help either of us.
Covering for your client makes you just as guilty, unfortunately.

Me: With all due respect I think if you were in my shoes you would not want to give a clients
information. I really think it will be a benefit to talk. Please call. Thanks. Joe

OP: I would happily provide their information if I was given proof that they were potentially
engaging in such devious behavior. I'd also never do business with them again, but it's
obvious that you value their business more than your own ethics.
It's possible there was another exchange before it reached your client, but that will need to be
researched.
As it stands, the ball is in your court, and you're still covering for your client. That's all I need to
know.

Me: Again I am willing to talk. I don’t want to fight with you. I would never do anything like
some people are suggesting. I cannot give a clients name. If you change your mind and
are willing to talk I am always available. I wish you the best. Joe

OP: You've taken your stance and I've taken mine. I just hope you can accept the consequences of
your actions.

Joe you have the patience of a saint. I can’t imagine letting anyone speak to me like this for as long as you did. Over a baseball card. Kudos.

[asoriano]

nevermind.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Scott L.

Joe you have the patience of a saint. I can’t imagine letting anyone speak to me like this for as long as you did. Over a baseball card. Kudos.

I agree. My response would have been quite different as well. The OP was way out of line. In threatening to ruin another man's business and reputation you have ruined yours in my opinion. Hopefully anyone who has seen this thread will think twice before doing business with you.

[BLongley]

Andrew, Thank you for coming on here and explaining the details. This certainly helps me believe your innocence.