new HOF "impact/era" ballot

[ls7plus]

Does Mark McGwire make the HOF as a candidate on the new "impact/era" ballot recently introduced? Will all essentially be forgiven?

Tell us what you think!

Best wishes,

Larry

[rats60]

Since they voted the first week in December and McGwire didn't get in, I say no. If you are asking will he ever get in, I say look at Joe Jackson, 80 years and still waiting. I don't see the dopers getting in.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by rats60

Since they voted the first week in December and McGwire didn't get in, I say no. If you are asking will he ever get in, I say look at Joe Jackson, 80 years and still waiting. I don't see the dopers getting in.

I would say there is enough dopers already in to field a few full teams. If you are just talking steroids then there IMHO already enough to field at least one full team.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I would say there is enough dopers already in to field a few full teams. If you are just talking steroids then there IMHO already enough to field at least one full team.

I guess you know more than everyone else. I don't know of any. I just deal in facts, not rumors or speculation.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by rats60

I guess you know more than everyone else. I don't know of any. I just deal in facts, not rumors or speculation.

I guarantee you are also dealing is rumors and speculation. Unless the player was popped or admitted to usage we will never know for sure. I highly doubt any that did are going to say "yes I done that".

My speculation is based on several years of personal usage so I know what they really do. While I done them I thought they were the best things ever invented. Now because of over usage when I was much younger I am a broken down middle aged man who has a hard time walking down my steps in the morning.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I guarantee you are also dealing is rumors and speculation. Unless the player was popped or admitted to usage we will never know for sure. I highly doubt any that did are going to say "yes I done that".

My speculation is based on several years of personal usage so I know what they really do. While I done them I thought they were the best things ever invented. Now because of over usage when I was much younger I am a broken down middle aged man who has a hard time walking down my steps in the morning.

How is saying that I don't know any rumor or speculation? It is a fact!!!!!! Unless you can provide facts that I don't know, you are only speculating.

So, I am waiting for names and facts. If there is a full team according to you, that shouldn't be a problem.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by ls7plus

Does Mark McGwire make the HOF as a candidate on the new "impact/era" ballot recently introduced? Will all essentially be forgiven?

Tell us what you think!

Best wishes,

Larry

I tend to think he won't, at least not for awhile. Bonds and Clemens will probably be the only known roid guys who get in any time soon, and they only because they were HOF'ers regardless if they retired at age 35 or juiced and put up their best seasons as they did.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Clemens, in his last four seasons in Boston when he should have been in his absolute prime (age 30-33), went 40-39 with a god awful ERA. This wasn't just a guy who had an off year. He had completely lost his dominance. I don't think you will find many Red Sox fans who believe his remarkable turnaround from that point is due to anything except PEDs.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Clemens, in his last four seasons in Boston when he should have been in his absolute prime (age 30-33), went 40-39 with a god awful ERA. This wasn't just a guy who had an off year. He had completely lost his dominance. I don't think you will find many Red Sox fans who believe his remarkable turnaround from that point is due to anything except PEDs.

I think the argument would be that he had 3 Cy Youngs, a 2nd and 3rd and a MVP Award before he started doping in Toronto. Even though he only had 192 wins, he had an ERA+ of 144 and a WAR of 81. That is much better than Bonds who only had 2 MVPs, 176 HRs and a WAR of 50 prior to doping in SF.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

I think the argument would be that he had 3 Cy Youngs, a 2nd and 3rd and a MVP Award before he started doping in Toronto. Even though he only had 192 wins, he had an ERA+ of 144 and a WAR of 81. That is much better than Bonds who only had 2 MVPs, 176 HRs and a WAR of 50 prior to doping in SF.

What year are you assuming Bonds started?

[HRBAKER]

That's precisely the thing Peter, we don't.
They forfeited all favorable conjecture IMO as well.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

I think the argument would be that he had 3 Cy Youngs, a 2nd and 3rd and a MVP Award before he started doping in Toronto. Even though he only had 192 wins, he had an ERA+ of 144 and a WAR of 81. That is much better than Bonds who only had 2 MVPs, 176 HRs and a WAR of 50 prior to doping in SF.

And it should have been 4 Cy Youngs. 1990 he was 21-6 1.93, and they give it to Bob Welch whose ERA was as I recall a full run higher.

[hysell]

Ok, I saw a show with Willie McCovey on it & he doesn"t back B.BONDS like W.MAYS does, say ,"he has never seen a drug/pill make a Baseball player?" I don"t care if your Superman or the Hulk,if you cant play or even hit the ball,how good can you be?Here is the fact in this sport, your a real good player if you fail 70% of the time?So if so easy to do?WHY are you or me not playing MLB baseball & you can put those great {NOT} HOFer voters on this LONGGGG list, also in the HOF?It"s a sport,these guys give up there bodys to play these sports?HOW many steroids & drugs are in our food ,right now? Do you think a turkey can reach 25 to 30 pounds in just under a years time?PLEASE,Robert.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Clemens, in his last four seasons in Boston when he should have been in his absolute prime (age 30-33), went 40-39 with a god awful ERA. This wasn't just a guy who had an off year. He had completely lost his dominance. I don't think you will find many Red Sox fans who believe his remarkable turnaround from that point is due to anything except PEDs.

His last 4 seasons in Boston he was 8th in MLB in fWAR ,29th in ERA with 3.77 and 16th in MLB in FIP with 3.69, he was still a really good pitcher. Tho, it's fairly obvious that around 96-97 he began PED's because from age 34-41 he was one of the 3 or 4 best pitchers in baseball which just doesn't happen .Player's don't have two peaks to their careers.

That is much better than Bonds who only had 2 MVPs, 176 HRs and a WAR of 50 prior to doping in SF.

wut? Most evidence points to Bonds starting ,at the earliest, around 1996 (statistically the big change appears around 1998/1999) but giving you the benefit of the doubt of 1996, between 1986-1996 Bonds had posted 81.8 WAR, 334 HR, 380 SB, a slash line of .288/.404/.548 , following a normal decline Bonds was going to be a 500 HR club member and post over 100 career WAR ,still making him a first ballot HOF type.

I condemn his PED use as much as anyone, but he was easily the best player of his generation and an easy HOF'er before using (which, makes it even more pathetic) but is why he and Clemens will get voted in either this year or next.