Answering specific autograph authenticity questions and help

[kengoldin]

Hi all.
Someone well respected on the board requested i post something regarding people who ask me questions in PM or email about items. He specifically asked me about a Koufax-Ryan signed ball that was shown on here and I was emailed by the member and told him it was good. He ended up winning the auction on Ebay, and he got a legit ball at a good price.

If you have a question especially about a purported Score Board item or an athlete I previously had under contract and I can help, i will. Email is often best as i do not read every thread. If i think it will help the community, without telling who asked it, I will repeat the question here along with my reply and why.
for starters: here is why i knew the koufax ryan ball was good
1. unlike the picture, it was NOT a koufax Ryan ball (which SB actually didnt do, they always added feller at $3 per sig to compensate for Koufax costing $25) but was a Koufax Ryan Feller ball

2. The ball holder it was in was the special holder that was made just for QVC customers, not a mass marketed holder, but a private label mold that SB had commissioned

3. the name plate on the ball holder was the type produced by California Gold, a company owned by SB.

4. I was actually not concerned about the koufax, the Ryan did look a little weird to me, so i emailed the images to the gentleman who was in charge of all Nolan Ryan signings from 1989-1997 and also handled Koufax signings. He said the sigs looked good, and the positioning of them on the ball and angle as they were signed 'in the box' was perfect.

based on 1-4 above, I answered the question 'Yes i think it is good'.

I hope this and future information is found helpful by the members
my email is ken@goldinauctions.com

regards
Ken

[shelly]

I want to thank Ken for doing this. It has been a long time coming but better late than never. I have always hated those triple signed BB. Now there can be a comfort factor that was not there before with items dealing with SB
I also remember,Ken said he would spend some money and go after people that he felt where harming the hobby.
If Leon wants I can make this a different thread but for now.
Here is what I would put up. Name the Company or people that you would love to see out of business. You must say why and exactly who they are. You must post your name.
Travis your out of this one.
TY Ken

[Deertick]

I want to thank Ken publicly for answering the questions I've had. Also, I'd like to reiterate what I've told you privately: Do not let a few (descriptive noun)'s prevent you from posting here. Many of us value your input.


Shelly,
Good idea to start another thread. I have some thoughts.

[kengoldin]

'harming the hobby' is very subjective. someone might say 'grading cards is harming the hobby', or 'EBAY is harming the hobby'....yet it is legal.
Illegal autograph activity : a) knowingly selling fakes, b)committing forgery, or c)knowingly and intentionally authenticating fakes (a business operated soley for the purpose of rubber stamping someone elses fakes).. is a different story. THAT is what, in theory, should be able to be stopped be legal means, either criminal or civil. THAT is the issue at hand.

I do not want to detour the intent, which is to try to help people and educate when there is a conclusion drawn as to why it is so, but the above certainly is 'the big picture'

[thetruthisoutthere]

Here's an example of how the dirt-bags have tainted the old Scoreboard COA.

Below are two obvious forgeries of Mantle and Ford. Notice how the dirt-bag from "Florida" is now attaching holograms to either an original Scoreboard cert or attaching holograms to a reproduced Scoreboard cert.


ms-2.jpg

ms-3.jpg

ms-1.jpg

[Deertick]

Seeing those holograms gives me douche chills...

[kengoldin]

Obviously that item was never a Score Board product
and of course, Score Board NEVER used a hologram

[thenavarro]

Ken,

Do you mind sharing the details on what it cost to get Gorbachev to do signings with ScoreBoard? Was it per unit or a lump sum? How did y'all reach him to do a signing? Did y'all ever attempt to get Reagan as well in order to have dual autographed pieces?

Mike

[kengoldin]

It was per unit
For the life of me i cant remember exactly as it was a 1 shot signing, but $200 is coming to mind
Harlen Warner brought the deal to me, and I have funny pictures of him with his long hair sitting next to gorbachev with my stacks of photos, Time magazines, and copies of that nuclear arms treaty sitting in front of him.
We had the 3 different issues of time magazines (which i had to really work hard to find enough copies, the photos, and the nuclear arms agreement signed.

I attempted to get Reagan but did not have a way to get to him, plus at the time he had alzheimers and he was not like Nixon or HW Bush where there was easy access to signings for compensation.

[thenavarro]

Thanks Ken

I've had several of those over the years and always wondered what they cost y'all. I think I've still got one of the treaties and one of the photos in storage. Always wanted to get my treaty done by Reagan too but never had the connections.

Mike

[shelly]

Mike in this business never say never.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Deertick

Seeing those holograms gives me douche chills...

Douche chills?

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Douche chills?

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Deertick

Seeing those holograms gives me douche chills...

I'm picturing a pirate uttering those words, and wondering if one's douche is anywhere near the perineum...?

[Big Dave]

Ken...

I've always told people that Mantle never signed any bats for SB.....Could you verify?

Thanks.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

Ken...

I've always told people that Mantle never signed any bats for SB.....Could you verify?

Thanks.

Mantle never signed bats for Scoreboard. Ken will confirm that.

[kengoldin]

Mickey Mantle never signed a single bat for Score Board.
The same can be said of Joe Dimaggio.
This includes not even signing a personally owned bat for me.

SB did have a large QTY of Dimaggio bats for sale, but they did not come with SB certificates. They were the limited edition #d of 1941 bats that were sold to HSN, and then I acquired by trading HSN trading cards for the bats. Those bats were marketing with a notarized LOA and NOT a SB cert.

if anyone ever tries to sell you a Mantle OR a Joe D bat with a Score Board cert, if is fake.

[kengoldin]

Just checking in to post publicly a few answers i gave in email to people over the past week , and as stated, if i think it serves a purpose to educate the forum, I will post publicly without mentioning who asked.

1. Jerry Romolt arranged for the 1941 bats to be signed by DiMaggio approximately 1994. Anyone else who took credit for arranging the deal is falsely bragging

2. Mantle would sign Cloth for Score Board, but would not sign 'mickey mantle' jerseys. This is why that ugly sweatshirt was developed and he did sign 500 HR jerseys for SB

3. Joe D did not sign a single jersey for SB

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by kengoldin

Mickey Mantle never signed a single bat for Score Board.
The same can be said of Joe Dimaggio.
This includes not even signing a personally owned bat for me.

SB did have a large QTY of Dimaggio bats for sale, but they did not come with SB certificates. They were the limited edition #d of 1941 bats that were sold to HSN, and then I acquired by trading HSN trading cards for the bats. Those bats were marketing with a notarized LOA and NOT a SB cert.

if anyone ever tries to sell you a Mantle OR a Joe D bat with a Score Board cert, if is fake.

Ken,
I can 2nd that , I lined up a private signing once with Mickey Mantle on the phone with Greer Johnson. He was at that time in Atlanta. We worked it all out on the phone and it was a done deal. I could hear him barking instructions in the background. Then I told her I had a Mickey Mantle bat that I had when I was a kid and would he sign just that ONE bat for me during the signing and I would never sell it. She said flat out NO. And I could hear him saying "No bats". And I said One bat ??? answer NO ! I took it personal it broke the deal and man ......I wish I wasn't so hard headed
____________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[shelly]

I was lucky. We had the first signing of Mickey on the West Coast in 1982. Part of the deal was fifty of his own Bats not the cheap junk. He signed everyone of them and on some he did Mickey Charles Mantle. He charged us an addition fifty dollars a bat. Tommy was handling most of everything but Johnson was there with her hand out.

[Mr. Zipper]

Why was Mantle so adamant about not signing bats? Did he just not like signing them due to size, shape, etc?

Or did he think they were "worth too much"? If that was the case, just jack up the fee.

[shelly]

Why would you ask that question. . He would sign anything if the price was right. If you look on Ebay you will find Mantle bats that are authentic. Not only from Uda but at signings he did all over the country. The five hundred hr show. The Maris and Mantle bat. He signed a limited 1952 bat that is nineteen hundred and fifty two just for Uda.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by shelly

Why would you ask that question. . He would sign anything if the price was right. If you look on Ebay you will find Mantle bats that are authentic. Not only from Uda but at signings he did all over the country. The five hundred hr show. The Maris and Mantle bat. He signed a limited 1952 bat that is nineteen hundred and fifty two just for Uda.

Of course I know he sometimes signed bats. But he didn't do it often and I've seen numerous stories where he refused to sign them. So why wouldn't I ask that question?

[kengoldin]

Its a matter of timing. Bill Russell didnt sign a single autograph, even for teammates for decades, shunned the autograph world, suddenly decides he wants the money, and signs one big deal, now he does card shows. Mike Marshall same can be said.
Mantle told my father and I he would NOT sign bats. said 'I have stopped signing bats' He signed bats last at the 500 hr show in atlantic city. He did NOT sign bats from late 1989-early 1993. He was annoyed at me because we gave Dimaggio triple the amount of money per year we gave him, so he signed a new deal with UDA as soon as his deal with me expired, and out of spite decided to sign bats for them as part of their deal.
It is normally about money in some manner. Either they want an incredilble price to do so, or they have put bats away for their kids and want them to be worth a lot when they die, or they signed an agreement excluding them from doing so for a certain period of time.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

Of course I know he sometimes signed bats. But he didn't do it often and I've seen numerous stories where he refused to sign them. So why wouldn't I ask that question?

Most players did not sign bats because there was not that big demand. People with money and a place to show them would buy them. It took up time and space at shows. He signed thousands of bats and as you can see by there prices they are not in great demand. Look at the cost of doing them at that time and what they cost today. Joe d and Williams bats have actually lost money. Mantle did not want to do them because of time. Like I said if there where money on the table the bats where signed.

[Mr. Zipper]

Ken & Shelly

Thanks. This clarifies.

[frankh8147]

Ken,
I posted this card on another thread was was kindly re-directed here. I bought the below Maddux years ago and assume it is a fake but I have no expertise whatsoever in autographs so could you tell me if this auto is real or not? Thanks! -Frank

[kengoldin]

WHile SB did insert, in 1 product I believe, other companies autographed cards into a product, signed by players it had under contract, and used that seal, I am also told that after I was gone from SB people walked out with the seals, and that those corporate seals were counterfeited as well. In addition, Maddux was an expensive autograph at the time and SB did not have a lot extra to use, and typically the product would have been filled with players who SB had 'too many' autos remaining under contract in order to liquidate them.

With the above in mind, coupled with fact IMO it looks like an attempt to copy Maddux's signature , i would say not authentic.

[HRBAKER]

I can't decide what looks worse, his signature or his moustache.
In fairness though - he has never had an attractive signature.

[chaddurbin]

maddux' modern sig is chicken scratch.

ken--i believe the cards below originated from sb? i see alot of these serial'ed cards with sb certs, so you guys must've had him under contract at one point? these seems to have originated in 1988.

[kengoldin]

yes, maddux did have an sb contract
yours looks good.
the other looked too neat (yes, too legible) for the autos i received from Greg in the mid 1990s