Kren bats - retail vs. game used

[KrenBats]

Given the lively discussion on the 40K H&B bats, I'd like to share my opinions on Kren bats and hopefully engage in some healthy debate.

I've been collecting Kren bats for about 15 years now and have over 80 bats in my collection, about half being "game used". One of the biggest challenges collecting Krens has been the lack of detailed information (i.e. Factory records, catalogs, photographic evidence, etc) to help in determing retail vs. game used bats. I've always been amazed that some bats I believe to be game used go for very little at auction and bats that I feel are retail go for thousands. I'd like to share my thoughts and hopefully get some comments.

Several "Sytle" bats have been sold and authenicated as "game used". Given that these bats were offered for retail (I've attached a 1940 Kren Catalog), I can't see how these bats can claim to be game used. I've seen photos of Adirandack "Type" bats used by professionals but never photos Kren Style bats.

Same can be said for Kren Klouter/Clouter bats. I stuggle with these being game used, given that they were a step below the Kren's Special model. The Klouter model was described in a late 1930's catalog:

In the Klouter, we offer a fine quality line of bats in slighty lighter weights than the Kren's Special but made from selected second growth ash, thoroughly air seasoned, finished and treated the same as the Kren's Special. Made in the autograph and player style of models. Lengths 33" to 36".

Now, there is proof from the H&B vault that retail bats have been game used. I just can't see calling these bats game used without side writing, mailing labels or other proof.

One of the misconceptions I've found is that "Hand Turned" Kren bats are always game used models, similiar to Spalding bats. I was fortunate enough to acquire about 15 Kren bats from the H&B barn find, with side writting and/or mailing labels, and all but one have the model numbers inside the diamond logo. Also, all of these player's names were block letters, which leads me to my final thought. The one thing I haven't been able to determine is the difference between endorsed retail bats and endorsed game used bats. Given that these players endorsed Krens, it makes sense that they would use endorsed bats with their names on them and not in block letters.

A couple of years ago I did meet someone who claimed to have worked at the Kren Fractory right before they closed shop. He said he was a bat finisher and that they would mix and match models and endorsements and they didn't differentiate retail vs. bats for professional players. (He did also mention how when the factory closed they gave away the crack bats to staff who would cut them in half and used them as fire wood to get through the cold Syracuse winters).

Sorry for the long post, but would love to get some comments and information on these bats.

Mike Hudson

[KrenBats]

Anyone with any comments? Would love to get more info and thoughts on these bats.

[Mark]

Mike
Thanks for sharing these interesting observations. One of my first purchases, 20 years ago, was a side-written Kren bat with the player's name in block letters. You say that you have 15 of these, and I am curious about who the players are. If you ever decide to display them on a website, be sure to alert the board. Beyond that, you raise a very good question about the Style bats. Please keep us informed if you get a chance to discuss this question with someone from the authenticating community. A question: What do you think the ex-Kren employee meant when he said that "he was a bat finisher and that they would mix and match models and endorsements and they didn't differentiate retail vs. bats for professional players." Was he saying that they applied the finish randomly to pro and to retail bats? or was he referring to something else?
Mark

[BigJJ]

Mike,
In line with the above, only if you can and desire, I am interested to actually see the different characteristis in question, and would look forward to your posting of some photos.
Also, are you saying that you have not seen pictures of players with Kren bats on MLB fields?

[BigJJ]

Article by Dave Grob on Kren bats:

http://www.mearsonline.com/index.php...t01returnid=98

[KrenBats]

Mark, thanks for the post. Here are the Kren bats that I have and am confident are game used. They are all Kren's Special models and only the Glossop is a "Hand Turned" model. I will work on getting pictures over the weekend:

Curtis Walker (Walker in block letters, side writing)
Rabbit Warstler (H. Warstler in block letters, side writing)
Frank Gilhooley (Gilhooley in block letters, H&B shipping label and side writing)
Jimmy Walsh (JW stamped on knob, side writing Dick Porter, Baltimore BC)
Harry Topel (H. Topel in block letters and side writing)
Ben Bedford (Bedford in block letters w/side writing)
Larry Boerner (L Boerner in block letters with side writing)
Eddie Gallagher (E. Gallagher in block letter and H&B mailing label)
Hank Sauer (Sauer in block letter, 36in and 40oz, with Chick Hafey knob)
Wattie Holm (R. Holm in block letters)
Bill Kelly (Billy Kelly in block letters, with shipping label)
Al Glossop (Glossop in block letters w/side writing)
Lee Dunham (Dunham in block letters)
Bing Miller (Bing Miller in block letters)
Name scratched off (Model 24EM w/eligible side writting)

As you can see, not many big names but that has been part of the allure for me collecting these bats.

The guy I met who claimed to work at the Kren factory was really old...he'd have to be since they closed in the early 1950's. I asked if Hand turned models were made for professional players or if certain model numbers were and how you can tell the difference from retail models. He said that they would take a Dick Porter model (26DP) and put Art Hord's endorsement on it. He said there was no pattern to separate pro and retail bats. Not sure how credible he was.

BigJJ, thanks for the post as well. I have seen a few pictures of pro players with Kren's but never a player hold a Kren Style bat. Again, I thinking that these Style bats were made for retail.

[Mark]

Mike,
Thanks for the info. Do any model numbers seem more common than the others? Is the EM24 (the Irish Meusel model, I believe) commonly used by pro players? I have one of them without anything on the label. My first Kren bat was an O'Doul block letter model, which I bought because it has Paul Waner side-writing from 1933.
Mark

[KrenBats]

Mark, I love the O'Doul/Waner bat! A lot of Pirates from the 1920's used Krens. I have a 1926 article on Joseph Kren and it states that "Speaker, Hornsby, Emil Meusel, Kiki Cuyler and practically every player on the world championship Pittsburgh Pirates use Kren bats".

Of all the gamers and store models I have, only two models overlap - model 145 and model 316W (Waner model). And yes model 24 EM is Irish Meusel. I really haven't seen and models more common than others but not sure I have a large enough sample size.

[KrenBats]

Anyone else on the board with any comments or info? Matt, Chris, others?

[MGHPro]

Great info.. thanks for posting. I think each Kren bat really needs to be looked at individually. A lot of bats were hand turned during the 20's and kren just happened to mark them that way, IMO possibly showing the pride they put into their product. I think many of the bats with "style" on them, were probably more for retail then pro use, but I'm sure some made their way into the majors. The bats with just a block letter last name, I think if it matches known specs/characteristics, you have a good shot of it being game used. Just cause a bat is hand turned, doesn't mean its a gamer IMO.

In the catalogs, does it say who model 27 is?
Thanks
Matt

[KrenBats]

Nothing in the catalogs on model 27. I know that model 31 is a Cobb model, model 32 is Mickey Cochrane and model 20 is Charlie Hollocer. Maybe someone on the board may know?