Black Light Discussion:

[samosa4u]

I have heard about black light for years, but I have never bothered to look into it. So here goes:

Is there anyone here who uses it? What are some of the things that you can see on cards that aren't visible under normal light? If you can provide examples or upload pictures, then that would be great. Do you think that it's important to own one, especially for collectors who like to spend big money?

I heard that companies like PSA use black light only on expensive cards - is this true? So does this mean that cheaper cards have a higher chance of passing through?

And finally, I see so many different ones on eBay - which one is good? A torch? A bar? Can someone on here explain the specs a little more to me? I see so many different numbers.

Thanks for your post

[nat]

"Is there anyone here who uses it?"

Yes

"What are some of the things that you can see on cards that aren't visible under normal light?"

Many post-WWII paper products (and, really, lots of other products) are made with optical brighteners. These chemicals make colors stand out more, but they also glow under a black light. Shine a black light on a white t-shirt and you'll see what I mean. If a card that purports to be from pre-WWII glows brightly under a black light, that's a strong sign that it's a fake. (Many things glow a little naturally, so you might also want to compare a suspect card with one you know to be genuine.) You might also be able to spot things that have been added to a card later (like re-coloring). Note, though, that not all newer materials have this stuff, so it's not a fool-proof test.

"Do you think that it's important to own one, especially for collectors who like to spend big money? "

I don't spend big money and I have one.

As for the specs, I don't know. Most of the little flashlight ones release a little visible light also. That's okay, but it makes it a bit harder to see the effect of the black light. Ideally you want it to be really dark.

[drcy]

How to Use a Black Light to Identify Reprints and Fakes of Antique Paper Collectibles

My favorite is the little LED flashlight shown in the article. But there are different styles that give off the same blacklight, so the style is just a personal preference. As long as they give off blacklight, they all work the same.

For more esoteric reading, shining a blacklight on a baseball card is an elemental form of spectroscopy, which is a highly advanced nuclear physics area. Spectroscopy in artifacts examination

[steve B]

I don't have any pics, and the kids have misplaced my current blacklight. I'll have to take some once I find it.

My current one is like this, different wavelengths from the tube and LED.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/6-Inch-Handheld-UV-Black-Light-Torch-LED-Flashlight-Portable-Blacklight-UV-Money-Detector-Stamp-Detection-Fluorescent-Marks-Certificates-Repairs/258626270?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=9600&adid=22222222227085181491&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=200762835355&wl4=aud-310687322322la-326247045725&wl5=9060550&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=117430005&wl11=online&wl12=258626270&wl13=&veh=sem

My old one was one of these. Stronger, and more accurate wavelengths, but a bit expensive.

http://www.bapequipmentstore.com/ind..._detail&p=1523


There's a lot to see, how the different inks and papaers react to the UV, some light up, some don't. Most prewar paper won't. Some writing will, even if it's mostly erased, some stains, that sort of stuff.

[h2oya311]

If you want to have a heart-attack, come to Phoenix and go out at night with a black light...scorpions glow under a black light whereas almost nothing else does...eek!

[toledo_mudhen]

In South Texas Scorpions are a delicacy - I link the semi translucent ones with some drawn butter & garlic.........

[jefferyepayne]

You don't have to be into expensive stuff to want/need a black light. It's one tool in your bag of tricks to detect *some* fakes/reprints. I use it mostly to determine whether photos are possibly restrikes / reprints.

One thing to remember. If paper glows it was likely produced after 1939. If it does not glow, you don't know when it was produced as some newer paper products do not have optical whiteners. Also remember that fakes/reprints can be created with old paper stock that was produced before 1940 and will not glow.

jeff

[bnorth]

I have the CFL type black lights. My bathroom does not have any windows so I chance out the regular CFLs in my vanity to the black light ones. No matter what type of light you are using they work best if they are your only light available.

A halogen light works great also, especially with alterations made to black. It makes Sharpie and most other added black appear grey.

[rainier2004]

I use a black light on every card, every time no matter the cost and I only collect pre ww1. It helps pick up all flaws and alterations, it can help ID when a card has been removed from a book and other minor things.

I have a bar mounted above my desk under the shelf for the TV and a small one that goes to shows with me on my backpack. I tell the dealer I want to view it under my light, empty my bag and turn the bag so we both can see and place the card inside to make it dark and turn on the light. It will show you all sorts of things IMO.

[drcy]

The chemicals that fluoresce were added to paper in the WWII era, and to photopaper in 1955.

As mentioned, if a supposedly Pre-WWII item does not fluoresce, that does not prove it old, because some modern paper and cardstock do not have the chemicals. However, the lack of fluorescence is consistent with it being old-- a good sign and helpful evidence.

[JLange]

A black light, ruler, and magnifying glass are essential for vintage collectors IMO. There’s also nothing better than an example card that you know to be genuine for comparison. I know that’s not always possible with rare or high end stuff though. Many frauds and alterations are easily spotted using these items, but unfortunately not all.

[the 'stache]

Everything he said.

BTW, I have the same black light Steve does.

Originally Posted by JLange

A black light, ruler, and magnifying glass are essential for vintage collectors IMO. There’s also nothing better than an example card that you know to be genuine for comparison. I know that’s not always possible with rare or high end stuff though. Many frauds and alterations are easily spotted using these items, but unfortunately not all.

[drcy]

Timely enough, I am having published in the near future two books, one a new guide to authenticating early baseball cards and the second an introductory physics textbook on ultraviolet light. The first is obviously appropriate, but the second might be of interest due to all the fascinating areas ultraviolet light is used: authentication, astronomy, medicine, biology, geology, forensics, dentistry, security systems, etc.

So just wait a month or two and they should be out.

[dlfallen]

Here is an example of a black light in action. The fake is a 1957 Seattle Popcorn card of George Munger. Although printed during a time when some paper stock had whiteners that caused the paper to fluoresce, none of the Seattle Popcorn cards (1954 - 1968) fluoresce under a black light. It might be instructive to compile a list of vintage post-war issues that should not fluoresce.

I discovered this fake in my collection a couple of years after acquiring it. I believe the seller dealt in good faith and because so much time had elapsed I did not pursue the issue with him. This card does not come up often, but luckily I got one shortly after my "discovery" for about half of what I had paid for the fake.

[Leon]

Black lights are cheap and easy to use. I think all serious collectors should have one. That said the big takeaway from a discussion should be that a black light is only one form of detection AND not all counterfeits or fakes will fluoresce. Just because something doesn't floresce doesn't mean it isn't fake.

[samosa4u]

Thank you everyone for your responses. Today I went to Lowe's and purchased the Rayovac 9-LED UV Flashlight for $16 CDN. I waited for it to become dark outside, because that's the best time to use it, and I went over my collection. I made a few shocking discoveries unfortunately.

Anyhow, I see there is a sticker on the back of the package which says the following:

WARNING:
This product can expose you to chemicals including DEHP, which is known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm. For more information go to www.P65Warnings.ca.gov.

What exactly is DEHP? Is it really that bad? And why does it only mention California? lol

I ordered a cheap one from China as well for a little over $3 USD - these are the ones a majority of collectors probably use. I want to compare it to my Rayovac model once it arrives.

[drcy]

Don't stare directly at the light (as in shine it in your eyes), but blacklights are no more dangerous, and perhaps even less, than sunlight (which contains UV light). Sunlight, of course, can cause cancer if you're in it too long.

Blacklight is longwave UV-- that's what you have and is the most benign. Shortwave UV (which you don't have) is the more dangerous. However, even then, collectors are just using shortwave UV for a relatively short duration and shining it on objects not themselves, so it won't cause harm.

Shortwave UV lights are a lot more expensive that longwave, which is why I know what you have (at those prices) are the longwave.

An interesting factoid is that shortwave UV doesn't exist naturally on earth and only exists here when its manufactured, such as with a shortwave light. The sun and stars emit it, but it's blocked by the earth's atmosphere.

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

... Anyhow, I see there is a sticker on the back of the package which says the following:

WARNING:
This product can expose you to chemicals including DEHP, which is known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm. For more information go to www.P65Warnings.ca.gov.

What exactly is DEHP? Is it really that bad? And why does it only mention California?

As long as you don't use them in CA, you should be fine.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

As long as you don't use them in CA, you should be fine.

+1

[steve B]

Originally Posted by drcy

Don't stare directly at the light (as in shine it in your eyes), but blacklights are no more dangerous, and perhaps even less, than sunlight (which contains UV light). Sunlight, of course, can cause cancer if you're in it too long.

Blacklight is longwave UV-- that's what you have and is the most benign. Shortwave UV (which you don't have) is the more dangerous. However, even then, collectors are just using shortwave UV for a relatively short duration and shining it on objects not themselves, so it won't cause harm.

Shortwave UV lights are a lot more expensive that longwave, which is why I know what you have (at those prices) are the longwave.

An interesting factoid is that shortwave UV doesn't exist naturally on earth and only exists here when its manufactured, such as with a shortwave light. The sun and stars emit it, but it's blocked by the earth's atmosphere.

One of the ones sold for Stamp collectors that has both long and shortwave will eventually be handy. Some things react to both, some only one or the other.
I priced out replacing my old dual wave light It's on the list of stuff to repair now.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by steve B

One of the ones sold for Stamp collectors that has both long and shortwave will eventually be handy. Some things react to both, some only one or the other.

Really? So there is some card restoration that can ONLY be seen under short wave ultraviolet light?

[frankbmd]

.....and here I always thought black light was used for viewing the dark web.

[bigfanNY]

My collecting focus has always been R300 issues pre war candy and gum baseball cards. I fist started using a blacklight in the early 1980's because I saw how easy it was to tell if a card had glue removed. And I was surprised how many cards in top condition had these marks. Made more sense when I came across scrapbooks full of r300's.
As for the Ruler Magnifying glass etc. Yes these days necessary because if you are a collector like me when a card on your want list shows up your eyes gloss over.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Really? So there is some card restoration that can ONLY be seen under short wave ultraviolet light?

That would depend on the materials, and how extensive the restoration.

I have looked at a lot of modern cards under both short and longwave (why not, I had the light ) And the inks react differently.
I don't have much for fakes or altered cards to compare to real ones.

The typical dual wave units are not sub $10 cheap, but they're not horribly expensive either, usually around $35.
https://www.homesciencetools.com/pro...xoC8xQQAvD_BwE

The one I have that's not working was a lot more powerful, but runs $100+ and is getting hard to find. It really lit stuff up compared to the smaller unit I have now.
For shortwave you should probably at least wear glasses with polycarbonate lenses to block the UV. Some people get headaches etc after some exposure.

[drcy]

People only need the longwave for baseball cards. Shortwave is used in other specialty areas, such as rock and stamp collecting. Stamps specifically have shortwave radiant markers put on them during manufacture for machine sorting purposes.

[Leon]

Here is my contribution for today. I saw a good friend, and grader, use this and had to have one. I just got it a few days ago and it is great. I don't own stock in the company just passing on what might be the best loupe around. It is 10x magnification, Large 21mm Lens, Aplanatic & achromatic, Distortion-free Optics,.Bright LED Illumination, Daylight for Color Grading,UV Fluorescence Detection...
Powered by 3 LR927 included button cell batteries

I am sure they can be found a ton of places....

https://www.esslinger.com/gemoro-ecl...4aAsp_EALw_wcB

.

[samosa4u]

That looks crazy, Leon! Wow!

[ls7plus]

From personal experience, a black light will also reveal many alterations, such as the addition of white-out or something similar that has been applied to mask wear. Definitely a good purchase, if you are buying raw cards.

Highest regards,

Larry

[TheFriendlyLion]

I recently acquired a few cards. The Young and Cobb are most definitely counterfeit or some unidentified reprint with no copyright (same thing). They don't feel right, there's cracks in the ink on Cobb's face, yet there's no impasto; so it must be an image. They glow like a glow worm too . The Wagner appears to be a glossy photographic front surface on a fibrous, parchment-like paper stock. It reflects only partially on back; perhaps some later applied adhesion or alteration. What do you folks think of these examples.Front with blacklight.jpg

Back with blacklight.jpg

Wagner.jpg

Wagner Back with Reflecting Blotch.jpg

Cobb Young backs.jpg

Cobb Young Fronts.jpg

Cobb Young side shot.jpg

Wagner Front.jpg

Wagner Back.jpg

Wagner Side view.jpg

[kmac32]

It has other uses like detecting if your cards have ringworm. 50% of ringworm cases of the species microspoum canis will Glow green and great for hunting for scorpions as they glow green also.

[1880nonsports]

as seen on jeopardy this evening - the platypus will exhibit a similar glow.....

[FrankWakefield]

Friendly Lion, I think that if you paid for those cards thinking they were genuine originals, that now you must be glad you got a black light and sad that you bought those cards. Yet isn't it good that you got that light now, rather than you buy additional cards not recognizing the distinctions for two or three more years before you finally try a black light.

Cycleback's article link is good guidance. Leon mentions a good tool set (which includes having or having seen genuine cards of a particular issue). And bigfanNY talking about the glue residue, that's evidence supporting the idea that almost all really old cards in really great shape were long ago pasted into scapbooks, only later to be soaked off of the scrapbook pages. I'm on with that; but some folks are in denial about that for they cannot see the light (pun intended).

[TheFriendlyLion]

I'm also sad I stared into the black light; and upset that the light doesn't seem to work when I shine it on the image of the next antique card I want to impulsively buy on FB Marketplace from my laptop - cardinal sin. Give me a break, I'm cooped up with Covid ! In all seriousness, this thread and all who have contributed to it have been very helpful, including J Blacklight. I like to think, we learn more from our failures than we do our successes if we fess up to them. Ya win some, ya lose some, guess - just yesterday afternoon I told a venerable customer of mine how sad I was about being deceived in the Marketplace so he went up to his attic and brought down his dusty old childhood stash of cards because he was at the end of his life (101 years old!) and wanted to do something nice for this relatively young, hard-working enthusiast (all lies).

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by TheFriendlyLion

I'm also sad I stared into the black light; and upset that the light doesn't seem to work when I shine it on the image of the next antique card I want to impulsively buy on FB Marketplace from my laptop - cardinal sin. Give me a break, I'm cooped up with Covid ! In all seriousness, this thread and all who have contributed to it have been very helpful, including J Blacklight. I like to think, we learn more from our failures than we do our successes if we fess up to them. Ya win some, ya lose some, guess - just yesterday afternoon I told a venerable customer of mine how sad I was about being deceived in the Marketplace so he went up to his attic and brought down his dusty old childhood stash of cards because he was at the end of his life (101 years old!) and wanted to do something nice for this relatively young, hard-working enthusiast (all lies).

“Scars remind us where we've been. They don't have to dictate where we're going.” - Joe Mantegna as David Rossi on 'Criminal Minds'

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

.....and here I always thought black light was used for viewing the dark web.

Dude….

Peter Maxx posters too!

B. T.

[lumberjack]

I don't believe anyone mentioned the use of a blacklight to determine the age of photographs. It isn't foolproof, brightener was added to photo paper sometime in the early fifties, but it is a tool.
lumberjack

[Leon]

Originally Posted by lumberjack

I don't believe anyone mentioned the use of a blacklight to determine the age of photographs. It isn't foolproof, brightener was added to photo paper sometime in the early fifties, but it is a tool.
lumberjack

I never thought of that.
.

[Exhibitman]

The blacklight rules out anachronistic photo stock, doesn't establish the age of the photo itself. It is a good tool but not definitive.

[T205 GB]

Buy a black light made for Ice Fishing. They are very powerful and very affordable. Also very resilient to the elements and abuse.

[lowpopper]

You need a blacklight to pickup recoloring via highlighter

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I have the CFL type black lights. My bathroom does not have any windows so I chance out the regular CFLs in my vanity to the black light ones. No matter what type of light you are using they work best if they are your only light available.



A halogen light works great also, especially with alterations made to black. It makes Sharpie and most other added black appear grey.

Great tip.

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