T206 Rare Backs

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Posted By: Robert {Bigb13}

What do you guys about the rare backs on the T206? How many of each do you think are out there? I am talking about backs like Leno, Uzit, Broadleaf, etc. Rob

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Posted By: Marc S.

I am by far not the expert on this:

Drum: 75-100
Uzit: 100-200
Broadleaf 460: 75-150
Broadleaf 350: hundreds
Lenox: hundreds
Hindu Red: hundreds

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Posted By: Robert {Bigb13}

I have read that Uzit up until the 1960's was so rare that Burdick spelled it Usit. Rob

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Posted By: JimB

I think Marc's numbers are probably in the ballpark. One note I would make is that Red Hindus seem pretty darn tough to me and though they are probably in the hundreds, I would guess the low hundreds, like 200-300.
JimB

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

I can't believe that JimB didn't say this:

T206 Ty Cobb King of the Smoking World backs: 13 known

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Posted By: Brian E.

Because like many people, he doesn't consider the Cobb back, a T206!

Brian E.

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Posted By: JimB

Who would want Ty Cobb back anyway?
JimB

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Posted By: Darren J. Duet

Could we get a consensus to eliminate Cobb/Cobb Back from the T206 set, and redesignate it T367?

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Posted By: john/z28jd

I know alot of people who would agree to that designation Darren and if you can search thru old threads youll see some pretty interesting discussions about the Ty Cobb back and its place among t206s.If they took a survey count me in as a person who would consider it a "1 of 1 set" by itself.

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Posted By: Cobby33

These are tough too, no?

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Posted By: Mike Tucci (18colt)

An earlier post stated 75-100 known Drum backed T-206s. Two items:

1) Back in fall 2003, there was a post about this. I think the ongoing total at the time was a little over 50 cards. I'd be curious what the count could look like now . . .

2) . . . which brings me to #2. If we take a poll of how many Drum backed cards people on this board currently have, and multiply by 2 (assuming that half of those out there may be owned by people who don't read or don't know about this board), we might have a pretty good estimate.

So, if anyone is interested in actually tracking it here . . . I have 2 Drums in beater condition -- Konetchy (fieldling low ball pose) and Pfeister (pitching pose).

Also - quick question about the Uzit count posted earlier -- does that include the recent "find" or not?

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Posted By: Ed McCollum

I've got one ... Bender, pitching, no trees. What condition is worse than beater? That's what it is. Purchased from Levi Bleam at 707 Sportscards at the National in St. Louis (1994?)

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Posted By: Larry

In addition to what was mentioned...Cycle 460 is very tough
Carolina Brights are semi-tough
Red Hindus are very underated and very scarce
Piedmont 350/460 factory 42 seem very difficult also...
I just picked up a large group of T206's and there was very few if any of these as well as the one's mentioned(Drum, Uzit etc)

Also Sweet Caporal Factory 42 with overprint in the 350/460 series(they crossed out factory 9 in this overprint)...looks like a series of red dashes that were printed over Factory 9, then factory 42 is below it...unique looking...

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Posted By: Nathan

When you say 75 to 100 exist for Drum - do you mean per player or for the whole T206 set?

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Posted By: John Spencer

I have one drum backed T206, a Griffith batting in a PSA 7. I wonder if there are any higher graded Hof'ers than this one.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

My only Drum is a Tris Speaker PSA 1.

It is a better quality card than John's... it just got graded on a bad day.

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Posted By: marc S.

<<When you say 75 to 100 exist for Drum - do you mean per player or for the whole T206 set?>>

For the entire T-206 set. It sounds like the number might be closer to 100-125 -- but the examples are so darn rare, it just is tough to tell. In Mastro's collector classic auction, a Doolan SGC 40 Drum T-206 sold for something like $3,400 or so. SGC has only graded eight T-206 Drum backs total. We will never know the PSA number because of they don't identify advertising backs.

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Posted By: Ed McCollum

I've seen the rectangular box overprint, and the scroll overprint, but never one with a series of dashes. Would you be able to post a scan? Thanks.

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Posted By: JimB

I have one Drum, a Magee with bat.
JimB

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Posted By: Richard

How about Lenox Brown? Also about 100-150 total?

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Posted By: joe maples

No rare backs but do have the one mentioned above with Factory 9 over printed with red, the Sweet Caporal 350-460 series factory 42. And 1 Cycle 460 subjects.

Joe

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I have one UZIT, Wiltse pitching, I have seen a second copy. No Drum, but hoping to get one. I think the Red Hindu are really tough ( I have a nice shalacked copy of Devore).

I would also like to see a scan of the fact 9 card.

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Posted By: Betty

My Drum is a Jake Atz PSA 4

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Posted By: Nathan

I thought there would be more cards as Luther "Dummy" Taylor is one I am looking for but with only a small number out there from the whole set of players, could it be that one does not exist for Taylor? He's on all the checklists of as having a DRUM back.

Thanks for an enlightening discussion.

Nathan

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

I have the following Drums....

Johnny Evers Batting Yellow background
Harry Hinchman Toledo
Doc Marshall Brooklyn
Orval Overall Hands at face
Jake Theilman
John Titus
Al Burch Fielding.


Be well Brian


PS I have never seen a Dummy Taylor with a Drum back, it is possible, but I have never seen one.

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Posted By: JimB

In addition to Hal's PSA 1 Speaker, there is a PSA 4 Speaker with Drum back. I saw it about 5 years ago at SCP and still regret not buying it. They auctioned it off.
JimB

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Posted By: pete ullman

I HAD a drum solly hofman that I sold on ebay 1-2 yrs ago for $1015 and I currently have an abbaticchio blue sleeves with a lennox back.

I also have a m browne chic on shirt and a doc crandall with a red hindu back.


pete in mn

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Posted By: JimB

I also have Uzit Willis.
JimB

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Posted By: leon

No Drum yet.....just never have gotten one.
Got a Uzit- Leach ....Really haven't concentrated on T206 backs too much (yet) regards

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

I have the following Uzit's.......

GEORGE McQUILLAN, WITH BAT PSA 5
ADMIRAL SCHLEI, BATTING PSA 4
HARRY STEINFELDT, WITH BAT PSA 6
VIC WILLIS WITH BAT PSA 4
FRED MERKLE PSA 3




Be well Brian

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Posted By: scott ingold

I have a red hindu Hummel. I see there is or was a red Cy Young on the bay about an hour ago. Bad shape though.

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

RED HINDU'S

MORDECAI BROWN, CHICAGO SHIRT PSA 4

WALTER JOHNSON, HANDS AT CHEST PSA 5

ED KONETCHY, GLOVE LOW PSA 7

JOHN McGRAW, GLOVE AT HIP PSA 2

JOHN HUMMEL PSA 3



Be well Brian

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Posted By: Marty

I do not currently own a Drum back, but I know where one is and he does not read this board.

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Posted By: Mike Tucci (18colt)

I have one Uzit (another beauty in my beater collection) and guess what -- it's Leach (fielding pose). Leon -- is your Leach the fielding pose or the portrait?

Have but one Lenox (black not brown) -- Marquard (pitching pose). Had Walter Johnson a few years back and regrettably traded it for a non-Lenox group that I needed for my set. If that person still has the Johnson, I'd like it back. I'll trade for it.

No Red Hindu. I have one Fact. 42 Piedmont -- Cy Young (front view, glove shows). Only 1 Cycle 460 (Overall pitching).

And yes to an earlier post -- 75-100 total Drum backs. Wondering -- is the Uzit total posted earlier with or without the recent find?

What an enjoyable thread this is turning out to be!

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Posted By: Art M.

Here is the list of my T206 Detroit players:

Lenox:
Jennings 1 hand

Drum:
Jennings 2 hands
Willetts pitching

Uzit:
Crawford batting
Jennings 1 hand
Jennings 2 hands
Mullin batting
Willetts pitching

Hindu Red
O'Leary hands on knees
**********************************
Here is the list of the Robert Edward Auction Uzit cards (all different from any of the cards listed above):
Cobb bat off
Berger
Bradley bat
Chase trophy
Conroy bat
Crawford bat
Jennings 1 hand
Jennings 2 hands
Jordan bat
Lake StL. no ball
Latham
Leach bending
Leifield bat
Manning pitching
Marquard pitching
McQuillan bat
Merkle throw
Mullin bat
Overall face level
Pelty vertical
Pfeister throw
Schaefer Washington
Schlei bat
Seymour port
Smith Chicago and Boston
Steinfeldt bat
Tinker bat off
Wagner bat on right
White Chicago pitching
Wilhelm bat
Willis batting
Wiltse pitching
Wiltse port with cap

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Posted By: Drew

I have these rare backs:

Factory 42 Joss Pitching

Drum Engle

Uzit Willets

Lenox Chase Blue
Lenox Stovall Scg 60



Drew

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

In my T206 set are:

DRUM.................Moeller
UZIT..................Schaefer
LENOX................Chance
BROAD LEAF........Grimshaw
CAROL. BRIGHTS..Clymer
HINDU (red).........Donlin
HINDU (brn).........Donovan
BROAD LEAF.........Grimshaw
el PRIN de GALES..Rucker

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Posted By: joe maples

Art M. some nice backs on those Detroit players, must be a Detroit collector like me.

Any fo sale?

Joe

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Posted By: Robert {Bigb13}

I just picked up a Wagner with Uzit back with a little damage. I also have a Cobb Red with a Lenox back a Ford with a Red Hindu back and a hard combo of Kleinow Boston Variation Piedmont 350-460 Factory 42 back. And a few other Piedmont 42's that off of the top of my head I can not remember now. Rob

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Posted By: Ed McCollum

Drum....Bender, no trees
Carolina Brights....Chance, yellow background
Uzit....Lake, ball over head
Broad Leaf 460....O'Leary, hands on knees
Lenox....Tinker, bat on shoulder
Tolstoi....Tinker, bat off shoulder

My three Hindus are brown, and my O'Hara and Demmitt both have Polar Bear backs...hummmmm.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Robert, Interesting variation of the Kleinow, Boston, I have a Cycle 460 of the same card and the Smith Chicago Boston as well as a Pied Fact 42 of the Smith.

I also have a Lenox Merkle throwing.

My other Cycle 460's:
Chance (yellow), Joss (pitching), Willis (pitching), Duffy, Bridwell Cap, Camnitz (arms up), Chase (holding Trophy), Wid Conroy (Batiing), McGraw (Port w/Cap), Murphy (batting), Happy Smith, Doc White (pitching), & Hooks Wiltse (port w/cap). Forgot to add my new Matty Black Cap.

Broadleaf:
Burke, Starr

Carolina Brights:
Stephans, Zimmerman, Chase (black cap)

Piedmont Fact 42:
Smith Chic. & Boston
Seymour, Pitching
Schaefer, Washington


Why are the American Beauty's getting no respect in this thread?

Lee

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Posted By: Brian E.

I have the following Rare/Scarce back Cobbs:

Broadleaf 460: Red
Piedmont 42: Red
x2 Carolina Brights: Red
Tolstoi: Bat Off
EPDG: Bat Off
Cycle 460: waiting on USPS to deliver

*please no offers on my CBs, I'm looking to trade for another Rare back Cobb that I don't have...say a Lenox, Red Hindu etc..


Brian E.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Nathan

Taylor is only in the 350 Series, which means he can be found with
13 different backs. The two exceptions are LENOX and UZIT.

And, as you seem to already know he does exist with a DRUM back;
that is if you can find it.

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

My Carolina Brights:
FRED ABBOTT
CY BARGER
SHAD BARRY, MILWAUKEE
EMIL BATCH
CHIEF BENDER, PITCHING WITH TREES
LENA BLACKBURNE (2)
ROY BRASHEAR
JIMMY BURKE
BILLY CAMPBELL
CHARLEY CARR
HAL CHASE, THROWING, DARK CAP
PAUL DAVIDSON
JEAN DUBUC
JERRY FREEMAN
BOB GROOM
JACK HANNIFAN
IZZY HOFFMAN, PROVIDENCE
BILL LATTIMORE (2)
JIMMY LAVENDER
PADDY LIVINGSTON
CARL LUNDGREN, KANSAS CITY
CHRISTY MATHEWSON, DARK CAP
AL MATTERN
JOHN McALEESE
IRON MAN McGINNITY
CHIEF MYERS, MEYERS FIELDING
BILLY NATTRESS
OLLIE PICKERING
AMBROSE PUTTMANN
LARRLY SCHLAFLY
JIM SCOTT
BUD SHARPE
OSCAR STANAGE
JACK WARHOP
FRED BURCHELL
BILL SWEENEY
FRANK CHANCE YELLOW BACKGROUND.

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Posted By: Jeff Mohler

I have a Marquard Lenox PSA 2 and a Dineen Broadleaf SGC 20. Tim Newcomb sold me the Dineen, I believe.

Jeff

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Posted By: Jim Rivera

A few to add to the list

Blank- Rhoades

BroadLeaf 460-Joss

BroadLeaf 350-Adkins, Hunter, Kroh, Maddox, Strang

Carolina Brights- Blackburne, Cree, Clymer, Evers, Maddox, Oakes, Puttmann, Quillen, Slagle, Thomas, Strang

Drum- Fiene

Hindu Red-Magee

Lenox- Abbaticchio, Konetchy, Lake (Brown Lenox), McGraw (portrait), Meyers, Murray, Oldring,


Piedmont 42- Brown, Lajoie, Wagner, Young

Uzit- Jennings (2 hands)

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Posted By: William Heitman

Add these Drum backs (using The Monster's numbers): 4, 7, 11, 20, 31, 42, 59, 71, 74, 79, 82, 95, 100, 107, 121, 128, 135, 149, 158, 179, 180, 194, 207, 213, 234, 250, 252, 263, 276, 278, 300, 311, 321, 332, 346, 365, 367, 382, 387, 394, 401, 402, 406, 412, 413, 418, 426

The most I've seen of any one Drum back is 4.

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Posted By: Robert {Bigb13}

I have the Monster and I have a question, why is the Kleinow Boston Variation ahrder than the NY one? In the monster it looks like the NY one was released only in the 150 series if I am remembering correctly and the Boston in the 350-460 and assorted series. Rob

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Posted By: William Heitman

Neither Kleinow was in the 150 Series

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Posted By: Robert {Bigb13}

My mistake, the Boston was in the 350, 350-460 and some of the assorted. And the NY version was only in the 350 and some of the assorted. When you look at the assorted brands the NY was issued with 5 brands while the Boston was issued with 7. So how can the Boston be rarer than the NY? According to the monster should it not be the NY which should be rarer? Rob