Hey, pennant guys

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by pologrounds

Today's pick. Black and Orange. Full size. Crisp. Phiti compliments of Mayseum

Interesting pennant, but are you sure?

I don't think the Giants used orange in the early 1900s. Those don't look like 1910's tassels to me either. I'm sure others here will know for sure.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Interesting pennant, but are you sure?

I don't think the Giants used orange in the early 1900s. Those don't look like 1910's tassels to me either. I'm sure others here will know for sure.

The Giants didn’t put orange into their color schemes until 1949. Prior to that, it was mostly red and blue.....and even purple.

[Baseballcrazy62]

Not sure if I posted this recent pick up here.

ACA1058C-F4D1-4251-A7A2-D35B49E5498A.jpg

[perezfan]

Sweet pickup Mike!

I've never collected Basketball, but if I did, that one would be a "Top 5".

[pologrounds]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Interesting pennant, but are you sure?

I don't think the Giants used orange in the early 1900s. Those don't look like 1910's tassels to me either. I'm sure others here will know for sure.

Waiting for Mr. Steinberg's assessment

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by pologrounds

Waiting for Mr. Steinberg's assessment

Well unfortunately I have to agree that it's a significant leap of faith to definitively call this one a NY Giants Pennant. The Giants primary colors were red and blue throughout the teens. Please see the link below...

http://exhibits.baseballhalloffame.o...ar&increment=9

While the pennant in question is very attractive, is unquestionably vintage, and has what we now consider to be traditional Giants' colors... it's unlikely that it's a Giants Pennant from the teens. Pennants like this were made as city souvenirs, and were also displayed at parades, conventions, and various local celebrations.

It's always a gamble with these generic types that list the City only (with no team name, mascot or logo present). I routinely shy away from these, although there are a few that are completely legit. Examples of Boston Red Sox and Braves embroidered pennants come to mind, as well as the Cincinnati Reds.

So with regard to the pennant in question, I'd give it a very small of being a Giants Pennant. While it is remotely possible, the colors are incorrect for the era. Furthermore, there are plenty of other Giants Team pennants from the teens that do include the team name or an identifiable mascot/logo.

Hope this is helpful,
Mark

[ooo-ribay]

Now you're just showing off, Mark!

[perezfan]

Just had to solidify my point, haha.

But seriously it is an important rule of thumb for vintage pennant collectors...

Be extremely cautious when considering a generic pennant purchase. Really do your homework, and let logic prevail over wishful thinking. I know that we (as collectors) automatically identify pennants with Baseball, or with Sports in general. But they were also quite popular at other non-sporting events back in the day.

If I saw an image of a generic pennant in a vintage photo, being waved in the stands, I'd feel comfortable buying it. But anything less is a big leap of faith, without proper or convincing provenance.

[bocca001]

Although I'm a Giants fan, I really like that Pirates pennant, Mark. That is super cool.

[pologrounds]

Ready to invest.

[Joe Hunter]

It’s been awhile since I’ve seen any vintage pennants, but picked up these college pennants, today.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Just had to solidify my point, haha.

But seriously it is an important rule of thumb for vintage pennant collectors...

Be extremely cautious when considering a generic pennant purchase. Really do your homework, and let logic prevail over wishful thinking. I know that we (as collectors) automatically identify pennants with Baseball, or with Sports in general. But they were also quite popular at other non-sporting events back in the day.

If I saw an image of a generic pennant in a vintage photo, being waved in the stands, I'd feel comfortable buying it. But anything less is a big leap of faith, without proper or convincing provenance.

Mark, what are your thoughts about these two? Indians, I’m pretty sure. Tacoma Tigers? They seem like a similar style, and I’ve seen an old NY Giants pennant with nine players’ profiles ...

(The Tacoma pennant does have a weird spine ... extends beyond the pennant on top and bottom, no tassels)

[perezfan]

Both undoubtedly baseball. Cleveland is obvious... nine Indians to represent nine men on the field. Plus, Wanstall (the artist) was a long-time employee of the team. I have an article on him buried somewhere, but would really have to dig to find it.

Tacoma Tigers is a gorgeous oversized pennant as well. I know a few prominent PCL collectors that own this pennant and will attest to its affiliation with the baseball team. It’s been sold in major sports auctions as such over the years, as well.

The generic pennants that concern me are the ones with just a city name and no team name, emblem or mascot. So no worries or doubts with those two, Greg!

[Duluth Eskimo]

To echo what Mark said, they are both baseball. I wasn’t aware of the artist association, but too obvious with the 9 individuals. I thought somewhere there was a game photo reference for the Tacoma pennant. I may be wrong, but someone might chime in.

I assume the Giants profile pennant you are referencing is the early 20’s World Series version with the matching Yankees? Those two are awesome pennants and I haven’t seen those surface since the Halper auction. I think there is another example of the Giants one in much lesser condition.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

To echo what Mark said, they are both baseball. I wasn’t aware of the artist association, but too obvious with the 9 individuals. I thought somewhere there was a game photo reference for the Tacoma pennant. I may be wrong, but someone might chime in.

I assume the Giants profile pennant you are referencing is the early 20’s World Series version with the matching Yankees? Those two are awesome pennants and I haven’t seen those surface since the Halper auction. I think there is another example of the Giants one in much lesser condition.

Thanks guys ... yes I forgot about the matching Yankees pennant. Beauties!

[thetahat]

Now with all this down time ... teaching from home, baseball season cancelled ... maybe it’s time to put together a pennant-by-design archive, at least with what I have. Not a price guide but a gallery.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Now with all this down time ... teaching from home, baseball season cancelled ... maybe it’s time to put together a pennant-by-design archive, at least with what I have. Not a price guide but a gallery.

Yes!

Get on it!

[perezfan]

Just a heads-up for pennant collectors (Football in particular...)

If you are previewing the upcoming Heritage Auction, you will want to pay particular attention to their "rare" Steelers Pennant....

https://sports.ha.com/itm/football/c...osition=1795|0


You will want to steer clear, unless you collect High School Pennants, as this one is clearly from Fontana High School in CA. The Pittsburgh Steelers NEVER used this logo...

https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Fontana_High_School


Furthermore, Heritage's Consignor knowingly consigned this pennant to Heritage, as a High School Pennant. Please note that same exact pennant appeared in a prior ITPC Auction with the proper disclaimer in bold red font. Same exact flaw under the "S" in Steelers... same exact pennant (see link below...)

http://www.insidetheparkcollectibles...-lot16657.aspx


So the consignor "conveniently" failed to mention to Heritage that the pennant is from Fontana HS. Instead of a pre-auction estimate of $600, that number should be roughly $25. Please beware of the sleaze within the hobby, as not all of it resides on the Card side.

[ooo-ribay]

Thank you, Mark!

Who’s being shady, here? Heritage, the consignor or both?

[Duluth Eskimo]

Mark,
There you go making sense again. How dare you sir. Now that it’s appeared in a “national” auction they’ll be people referring to this in the future. “Rare” don’t ya know.

[Fballguy]

Without a doubt not the Pittsburgh Steelers but people will believe what they want...or what an auction house tells them. Like the Packers pennant that ended on eBay today. I wouldn't have risked $50 on it, but it sells for $485.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Thank you, Mark!

Who’s being shady, here? Heritage, the consignor or both?

Baseball Rob:
I'd put this one more upon the consignor. But Heritage certainly failed to do its due diligence, in taking the consignor's word as the gospel. And they should've spared the accolades of how rare it is without really knowing (not to mention their crazy $600 pre-auction estimate).

So although the consignor knew what it is (or more appropriately isn't), Heritage bears some of the responsibility. Let's call it 75% Consignor / 25% Heritage. Just my opinion...

Football Rob:
Completely agree... No way that's a Green Bay Packers Pennant. It's likely that a combination of wishful thinking and the usual Packer fanaticism both contributed to that goofy price realized. Like the aforementioned Steelers, I'd bet it's a misidentified High School Pennant.

[ooo-ribay]

Mark - you said the consignor consigned it to Heritage, as a high school pennant. Your syntax is normally impeccable, but this time it threw me.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Without a doubt not the Pittsburgh Steelers but people will believe what they want...or what an auction house tells them. Like the Packers pennant that ended on eBay today. I wouldn't have risked $50 on it, but it sells for $485.

Saw that one too. Early and one of a kind. Good stuff.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Mark - you said the consignor consigned it to Heritage, as a high school pennant. Your syntax is normally impeccable, but this time it threw me.

Oh sorry... the more worked up I get, the worse my grammar gets. At least that's the excuse I are going with.

[erikc21]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Now with all this down time ... teaching from home, baseball season cancelled ... maybe it’s time to put together a pennant-by-design archive, at least with what I have. Not a price guide but a gallery.

I’d love to see!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[perezfan]

Same here... sooner the better. It's getting boring self-isolating and watching old movies. Would much rather watch a vintage pennant presentation... especially if its from Greg's collection!

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Same here... sooner the better. It's getting boring self-isolating and watching old movies. Would much rather watch a vintage pennant presentation... especially if its from Greg's collection!

Definitely going to get on it ... promise!

[ooo-ribay]

What the......?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-ORI...rdt=true&rt=nc

[Fballguy]

Was watching that one. Winning bidder is a new member with 0 feedback and 100% bid activity with this seller. Me thinks somebody doth sniped too much.

[erikc21]

Ah, misunderstood at first... sounds sketchy

[MK]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

What the......?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-ORI...rdt=true&rt=nc

Could it be that this is a scarce pennant and two or more guys wanted it very badly and just got caught up in the moment. Stir crazy from being quarantined and alcohol can led to very bad decisions. So I’ve been told.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by MK

Could it be that this is a scarce pennant and two or more guys wanted it very badly and just got caught up in the moment. Stir crazy from being quarantined and alcohol can led to very bad decisions. So I’ve been told.

It’s fairly rare. I paid $87, shipped, for mine.

[bocca001]

I bid on this early just to make sure I did not forget about it and then saw my bid quickly passed by someone with a bunch of small incremental bids and 100% with the seller. So, I just stopped. Even though I knew funny stuff was going on with this one, $949 is just insane and can't really have involved a pennant person.

I'm really looking for the Orange and Black version of this pennant. Do you have that one Rob?

[MK]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

It’s fairly rare. I paid $87, shipped, for mine.

OK, I’d say you got a really good deal, and someone really overpaid on this latest one.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by MK

OK, I’d say you got a really good deal, and someone really overpaid on this latest one.

Yes... the actual value is about midway between what Rob paid and the eBay price (whether real, fake or otherwise). What a steal, Rob!

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by bocca001

I bid on this early just to make sure I did not forget about it and then saw my bid quickly passed by someone with a bunch of small incremental bids and 100% with the seller. So, I just stopped. Even though I knew funny stuff was going on with this one, $949 is just insane and can't really have involved a pennant person.

I'm really looking for the Orange and Black version of this pennant. Do you have that one Rob?

I’ve got it in those colors. Rarer than the blue, for some reason. Just drop me a PM if interested, Marc. I don’t really want to “socially distance” myself from it, but could use some income right now. My gig has evaporated for the time-being, so I can offer it up at a good price, if you’re interested.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by bocca001

I'm really looking for the Orange and Black version of this pennant. Do you have that one Rob?

Yes, I do. I hope you and Mark can come to a deal.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Those are nice pennants. Much nicer than the blue version. I did want to comment about the orange color as someone mentioned them not using orange prior to late 40’s, but this is definitely earlier than late 40’s. I do think that other pennant was just a city pennant, but the late 40’s date kind of threw me for color. Wondering why you think that late?

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

Those are nice pennants. Much nicer than the blue version. I did want to comment about the orange color as someone mentioned them not using orange prior to late 40’s, but this is definitely earlier than late 40’s. I do think that other pennant was just a city pennant, but the late 40’s date kind of threw me for color. Wondering why you think that late?

The Giants didn’t have orange in their uniforms until 1949.

[bocca001]

Thanks, Mark. I just sent you an e-mail.

Rob- your version sure does have a lot of tassels (or is that the blue version underneath?).

[Hot Springs Bathers]

I enjoy checking this thread so much, great information, wonderful photos just great stuff!

No one commented but Joe Hunter those college pennants are really neat!

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Thanks, Mark. I just sent you an e-mail.

Rob- your version sure does have a lot of tassels (or is that the blue version underneath?).

Not the blue version, but some other 3/4 NYG pennant.

[bocca001]

Mini pennant just out of quarantine. Astros stuff without the Astrodome can be tricky to find.

[ooo-ribay]

Picked up a couple not too thrilling, top and bottom. Any guesses who did the HOF pennant? It can't be any older than 1973, because Clemente is on it. I always liked the "Giant with bat," so I picked up the 20 incher. Any idea what the "tassels" were for? I'm thinking maybe it was part of one of those NL "strings" but don't remember seeing a string with this design...

[MK]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Picked up a couple not too thrilling, top and bottom. Any guesses who did the HOF pennant? It can't be any older than 1973, because Clemente is on it. I always liked the "Giant with bat," so I picked up the 20 incher. Any idea what the "tassels" were for? I'm thinking maye it was part of one of those NL "strings" but don't remember seeing a string with this design...

That HOF pennant was updated over time as new players were added to the Hall. I believe the first one came out in the 1950s or early 60s. Someone on here probably has an early one.

I think the tassels were just a style used for a time. This is from a dated 1935 pennant with the same type of tassels.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Rob,
On those HOF pennants, they generally put the newest guys near the middle of the pennant. Obviously you have it narrowed down pretty good with Clemente being on there.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by MK

That HOF pennant was updated over time as new players were added to the Hall. I believe the first one came out in the 1950s or early 60s. Someone on here probably has an early one.

I’d like to see an early one!

[Fballguy]

Here is one...Description noted 1950s. I'm sure someone here can be more specific.

[Fballguy]

What was the logic behind who was pictured on the pennant?