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  #11  
Old 09-20-2017, 01:13 PM
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bobbyw8469 bobbyw8469 is offline
Robert Williams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
What does known to be real mean? I don't understand the criticism here. PSA rejected autographs they feel aren't authentic. That's their opinion. If you're saying that they shouldn't authenticate autographs unless they're able to make a determination without fail, wouldn't you prefer they err on the side of caution and reject an autograph they aren't comfortable with?
Known to be real means I stood in front of Mantle while he signed it. We BSed about big breasted blondes whilst he signed my card.
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  #12  
Old 09-20-2017, 01:23 PM
packs packs is offline
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Why did you pay PSA then?
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  #13  
Old 09-20-2017, 03:56 PM
theshleps theshleps is offline
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I have always run my autos by Jim Stinson and Ron Gordon both original PSA folks for their opinion. I have seen them say something is good and PSA rejects it and I have seen the opposite too. I trust Jim more as he can tell me exactly why and a whole history of that player and signing habits, ghost signers, etc. I couldn't care less about a LOA except when I am selling my dupes and the AH requires getting one. I had a Bobby Doerr rejected by PSA- it was a fairly recent TTM one. Who is going to forge a Bobby Doerr?
The problem is when PSA rejects a vintage signature of mine I have no idea who looked at it and why they didn't like it. Would they have still rejected it if it was sent in by REA or HA? Also some of the AH's tell me to resubmit it to them again and it is often accepted. So I have to pay twice and hope someone else looks at it? Crazy and us old timers are frustrated. Sure there are lots of fakes but some items we have held for decades and have great provenance and still a rejection. Just frustrating
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  #14  
Old 09-20-2017, 05:23 PM
tha-rock tha-rock is offline
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I agree with the comments posted and Michael has discussed this subject with me. Very disturbing if true. It makes no sense to me to reject an autograph merely because its vintage, or on a vintage item. When I submit a signed item to a TPA, I'm buying a professional opinion as to the autograph's authenticity. They were not there to see it signed, so all they are providing is an opinion, since they can't be 100% sure about it. In my mind, the question is how sure does an authenticator need to be before he is willing to say "I'll authenticate it." 51%?, 75%?, 90%?, 99%? I sort of understand the basis for charging more to authenticate an 18th century player than someone like Darold Knowles, because of the effort involved. Does their standard for declaring authenticity vary as well? For example, would they want to be 95% sure before they are willing to put their seal of authenticity on the likes of Al Spalding, Candy Cummings, Monte Ward, Kid Nichols, whereas for Darold Knowles or Milt Pappas, they are willing to certify it if they are 60% sure about it. Should the standard for authenticity vary based on the age of the item or age of the autograph?
It also makes no sense to me that some TPAs want to charge more for authenticating the same autograph if it is on a vintage item than if it is on a recent item. What justifies that? Certifying a Hank Greenberg signature on a 1939 Playball should be no more difficult than certifying it on 1980s reprint.
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  #15  
Old 09-20-2017, 06:19 PM
packs packs is offline
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Is there really a large portion of the collecting world who think PSA is rejecting items because they're vintage? I don't really see how that model could sustain itself considering the amount of players who have passed. Where does that information come from?
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  #16  
Old 09-20-2017, 06:53 PM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
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My fail rate went from 5% to 40% in the past year. It is NOT because there are that many more forgeries. Again 2 1952 high numbers from one death in 2010 and one living failed. Both are 100% good. One was ttm, and the other I have 3 examples for comparison. Also, More 52s failed of players who died in the 2000s.


Seems odd
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Yes, I'm trolling Ebay right now solely for "pricing errors"

Enfuego sold me a fake card
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But paypal refunded me so he's allowed back on the boards

Last edited by Republicaninmass; 09-20-2017 at 06:54 PM.
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  #17  
Old 09-20-2017, 06:56 PM
theshleps theshleps is offline
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Part of it is rumors possibly put out by employees at TPA's and part is experience. Like getting my 1940 playball Doerr rejected by PSA is kind of ridiculous. I think some also depends on who submits it. Some of the companies who do tens of thousands of dollars a year with a TPA I bet has a better chance of getting something slabbed than someone who never submits anything . People like Bill Corcoran and Kevin and Rich at PSA are above reproach. But for instance a Dean plaque that Jim Stinson sold to a friend was rejected by PSA recently. is it because the value is so high now? is it because my friend is a little fish. WE don't get to know who rejected it. Jim was offered a position at PSA. If he had gotten it he would have passed it. There needs to be a written policy on the procedures they follow on higher ticket items
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  #18  
Old 09-21-2017, 07:58 AM
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Duluth Eskimo Duluth Eskimo is offline
Ja.son Hugh.es
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theshleps View Post
People like Bill Corcoran and Kevin and Rich at PSA are above reproach.
No one is beyond reproach. That is part of the problem right there. They are giving you an opinion, if you don't want it don't do business with them.

What Ted says is 100% true. We discussed this in a previous thread. Kevin and others I guess are rejecting many many items that are authentic and would have passsed prior to them taking the job. It's either authentic or not, not some BS. Just like when Kevin was selling, "most aren't authentic, except the ones I'm selling". Now I will admit that I respect Kevin, Rich, and others mentioned, but that doesn't excuse rejecting authentic autographs because you feel there are too many in the marketplace. Especially for a Bobby Doerr as mentioned.

I get items authenticated for resale and nothing more. It helps the resale value. Not my personal collection. I have had many non baseball autos rejected as have many people I have spoken to. These other people are very knowledgeable as well. It sounds like they are kicking many baseball related autos as well. Not everything can be an exactly right on the money perfectly flowing vintage autograph that a 10 year old can authenticate.

Lastly, I would like to remind everyone (especially the moderators) that these people in this thread and others need to post their real name or go away. Stand by your comments
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  #19  
Old 09-21-2017, 08:30 AM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
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I believe the "new regime" is NOT reviewing the psa/dna cards, as most would have easily passed a veteran's eye. They are busy looking at the higher end psa/dna items.
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SIGNED 1952 Topps

Yes, I'm trolling Ebay right now solely for "pricing errors"

Enfuego sold me a fake card
Wouldn't answer his phone
Wouldn't email me
Wouldn't respond to paypal
But paypal refunded me so he's allowed back on the boards
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  #20  
Old 09-21-2017, 09:46 AM
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Duluth Eskimo Duluth Eskimo is offline
Ja.son Hugh.es
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Republicaninmass View Post
I believe the "new regime" is NOT reviewing the psa/dna cards, as most would have easily passed a veteran's eye. They are busy looking at the higher end psa/dna items.
I disagree and Kevin is the main authenticator and goes on the road for shows and events. They do not encapsulate on the road though.

When a company just starts rejecting items at 5 times the norm, something is wrong. Unknowledgable people will probably just say, "that's because they're no good". Anyone who submits knows there is a problem.
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