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  #1  
Old 12-08-2002, 10:49 PM
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Default Leland Auctions- question for group

Posted By: Bob

I have a question for the group. Has anyone ever had any experience with cards won through Leland's Auction which appeared to be trimmed or altered? I am asking because one lot I won last night consisted of a terrifically undergraded E95 Wagner in an SGC holder, and two non-graded cards, an E98 Cobb and an E95 Plank. Both look sharp but I was a little worried when I studied the webpage today when I printed it off that the borders might be a tad narrow. It could be just the scans, or these old eyes, or whatever, but it got me thinking and I checked (should have done this first) and Leland's has one of those "absolutely no returns for any reason, screw you" policies. The Cobb and Plank scans were awfully small and a little fuzzy. Makes you wonder. Oh well, I'm keeping my fingers crossed and by the way they don't take credit cards, so that option is out, vis a vis a return and call to the credit card company etc.

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  #2  
Old 12-09-2002, 11:42 AM
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Posted By: jay behrens

Personally, I wouldn't trust Josh Evans as far as I could throw him. And that's probably being too generous. Josh is right there in the Al Rsoen league of dealers I dislike the most. But everyone else's milage may vary.

Jay

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  #3  
Old 12-09-2002, 01:16 PM
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Posted By: Julie Vognar

Won a beautiful 2nd generation close-up of Joe Jackson's face--no thanks to Lelands! THEY said the "C" in his cap meant he was with Chicago, and that because George Brace's stamp, (including the 2-number Chicago zip code) was on the back, it was a "Brace photo." George Brace, who recently died in his 80s, was a bit young for phptography in 1913 when it seems to me the photo was taken, but as we all know, he and his partner (a much older man) George Burke, tried to get photos of everyone who played in Chicago, and they also collected and printed the photos of others.

Anyway, I still paid a mountain for it, and I'm not sorry. Even if he was with Cleveland, and I'll never know who took the picture!

I've heard horror stories about Lelands, mostly having to do with shill bidding, and other bidding crimes, but since the two things I won for him were verry popular, doubt that a shill was used.

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  #4  
Old 12-09-2002, 01:55 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

Was he trying to pass Joe Jax sigs by sister as ones that were actually signed by Joe? He's tried pulling that stunt before, knowing full well his sister signed it. It toatally amazes me that he is able to stay in business with all the crap he pulls.

Jay

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  #5  
Old 12-09-2002, 02:01 PM
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Posted By: David

Bob, I won my first item in a Leland's auction, so, like you, I will wait to see the results. The item I won was not condition sensitive and certainly not trimmable, so I don't have worries on your order.

As I have never dealt with Leland's before, I am hoping for and expecting the best. I want things to work out well, as they always have great items in their auctions. I would love to be able to add them to my auction calandar.

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  #6  
Old 12-09-2002, 02:53 PM
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Posted By: Jeff Obermeyer

I have only made one purchase from Joshua, and it was a B18 Joe Jackson that I got through an SCD ad about 10 years ago. It was every bit as nice as it was described, and I was happy with the transaction.

I have had the opportunity to meet Joshua at various shows as well, and I found him quite knowledgable in some areas and interesting to talk to.

Just one man's opinion...

Jeff
http://www.seattlehockey.net

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  #7  
Old 12-09-2002, 03:51 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

My first few experiences with Josh were very good, but then they went down hill rapidly from there. Getting screwed a big sale tends to that.

Jay

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  #8  
Old 12-09-2002, 03:57 PM
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Posted By: David

Jay, let's start with an easier question: Who do you like?

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  #9  
Old 12-09-2002, 03:59 PM
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Posted By: David

Just teasing.

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  #10  
Old 12-09-2002, 04:50 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

Actually, I like most dealers. The only dealers I truely detest are Evans, Rosen, Galovich and any dealer that sits behind his table thinking he knows more than people looking at his cards asking him questions, or dealers that assume that just becuase I look like a biker/punk rocker that I have no clue what I am talking about.

Jay

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  #11  
Old 12-09-2002, 05:11 PM
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Posted By: Julie Vognar

about Lelands are true, he's really bad news. Who do I dislike? Rosen, except for the gem mint 1915 Cracker Jack Brown, ungraded, I won from him for $800...it's in the best condition of all my cards. His auctions are a horror beyond imagining! Yanks the phone lines at 1 A.M. (ET)--no ten-minute rule.. No call backs. (This guy has a full page, usually the cover! ad in SCD EVERY WEEK, but pleads poverty--he can't afford to put in enough lines or hire enough help to sit around all night waiting for the phone to ring every ten minutes, or call you back if you've been outbid...)Then the next day, you're sitting there with your non-collecting other half, and he calls you! All winners! Everywhere! And tells you what you've won, and how much it will cost, and whether he;s "Mint" or "Rosen." (Fortunately, Bob thinks all my phone conversations are boring, so he didn't notice when I asked "So what's the total damage?" "Mint or Rosen?")

Don't get me started...

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  #12  
Old 12-09-2002, 08:09 PM
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Posted By: Bob

I am keeping my ruler ready when the cards come in and we'll see. I know the caramel cards have a little bit of tolerance in sizes...

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  #13  
Old 12-10-2002, 06:28 AM
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Posted By: Tom

many times. You will very seldom find cards of high quality in their auctions. I've bought Cameo Pepsin pins and PM1 pins and a couple of lots of autographed cards in their auctions going back 5-6 years. They ship promptly and are relatively easy to deal with. Their new internet format works relatively well too.

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  #14  
Old 12-11-2002, 09:12 AM
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Posted By: James


I am a little upset with Lelands right now. Nothing too serious - but worthy of noting. The auction they just ran, which closed 12/6, included a pretty signifigant hoard (335) of T206s (lot 1721), which I had been interested in at the open. They also featured a graded Magie error card, and a few other T lots. Another lot they featured, lot 1713 - a group of 30 T206 HOFers, gave me concerns about bidding on lot 1721, though. The reason? Look for yourself. Make sure you enlarge the scan to see the cards closely:

http://www.lelands.com/auction/auctioneer.exe?SiteId=LELANDS&Item=1729

These cards all have either Piedmont or Sweet Caporal backs.

Is it just me, or is EVERY one of these cards trimmed? (and, not just a slight trim - these puppies have NO BORDER, for goodness sake!). If these had "Beauty" backs - I wouldn't even think twice about these. But, even though there are no "sharp" edges (all rounded), they seem VERY trimmed.

Anyway, I addressed some concerns I had aboutwhether these 30 were pulled from the original group that included the 300+ cards in lot 1721. My concern is, you never actually see the "bulk" of the lot until you receive it - only a few are depicted in the description. It is always the unseen evils that concern me the most.

I got no response, and thus, I did not bid. (Truth be known - the price went through the roof, so I would have avoided bidding anyway - but, still would have been nice to hear SOMETHING). Even if there is just SPECULATION the cards may be trimmed - or just "wicked short" as Adam Sandler would say - shouldn't that be noted in the description?

I did ask a few folks that have worked with Leland - the response - overwhelmingly that they pull these tricks frequently. I guess you really just need to keep your eyes wide open when bidding on their merchandise.

Just my thoughts.

Jim

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  #15  
Old 12-11-2002, 10:03 AM
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Posted By: Lee Behrens

You would think the people paying that kind of money would have a clue what they are buying. I didn't even need to enlarge, they even clipped the corners.

How can such a so called "reputable" dealer seller sell something this obviuos without knowing or mentioning it in the description.

Just Another place I don't need to spend my money.

Lee

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  #16  
Old 12-11-2002, 10:55 AM
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Posted By: runscott

James - you are entirely correct. Even if they were Am. Beautys, they are still too short. Whoever bought these took a bath. Also, you can't buy cards like this that are described as "Young Glove Shows (paper loss on verso, o/w NM-MT" AND they are trimmed AND the seller doesn't respond to questions.


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  #17  
Old 12-11-2002, 11:24 AM
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Posted By: Tom

they rarely have good cards in their auctions. When they do, they don't seem to be terribly knowledgeable about them. They seem to concentrate heavily on the memorabilia side of things. That said, when they do have decent cards you can often get a decent deal on them but you gotta watch out for things like what James saw here.......they are definitely trimmed.....

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  #18  
Old 12-11-2002, 08:41 PM
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Posted By: Julie Vognar

...

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  #19  
Old 12-12-2002, 06:41 AM
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Posted By: runscott

and stick to stuff that they can accurately describe. This would be like me selling naked, shaved Barbie dolls and describing them as "NM, except missing some of the clothing".

(I used "Barbie Dolls" as an example to give Leon a little excitement at work).

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  #20  
Old 12-12-2002, 06:50 AM
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Posted By: Tom B

is you're NOT going to sell your naked shaved Barbie Dolls?

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  #21  
Old 12-12-2002, 06:57 AM
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Posted By: runscott



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  #22  
Old 12-12-2002, 09:56 AM
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Posted By: warshawlaw

Quite some time ago (March 26, 1999, lot 981, to be precise) I picked up a huge lot of boxing cards from them. The cards were listed in one of their infamous grab-bag lots as random assortments of several sets, including T218, T220 and 1948 Leaf cards. The counts on the cards sounded like complete sets or near sets, but the lot was just listed as groupings of cards with virtually no description.

I took the lot for around $5 a card.

It had a complete set of 1938 Churchman's, a complete set of the T218 boxers, 49 of the 50 T220 boxers including a whole bunch of high grade short printed silver border cards that had not even been listed in the catalogue, and what was listed as 42 of the 49 1948 Leaf cards. Best of all, the morons had misclassified a 1932 U.S. Caramel card of Jack Sharkey as a 1948 Leaf card (the caramel card is a heck of a lot rarer). It brought nearly 10% of the bid back to me when I sold it.

So much for expertise in that clown college.

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  #23  
Old 12-12-2002, 10:18 AM
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Posted By: leon

I wasn't really going to chime in but figured what the heck. I met young a guy (maybe 25) at the the last National who has the title of "Director of Sports Cards Division" on his card I have in front of me right now. He had only been with them for a few weeks or a month when I met him. He seems real eager to do good and real motivated. Unfortunately he has about 10% of the experience even I have on pre-war stuff Gonna take some time there. He was wanting me to introduce him to the few folks I know but it never quite happened. Real nice kid but just a novice.....maybe they will get better....although, isn't Lelands the one that just had the same ole Matty in a PRO holder for sale in their last auction....that really gives me less than NO confidence...regards all (BTW, he did show up at my hotel room late one night with about 5 other kids and we partied like it was 1999 ) regards all

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  #24  
Old 12-12-2002, 10:55 AM
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Posted By: runscott

Everyone wants a piece of the pie, but no one wants to do their homework to get ready, or to pay for the expertise required to run a vintage business.

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  #25  
Old 12-12-2002, 02:03 PM
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Posted By: David

While not dismissing anyone else's claims, in their last auction, Leland's has a number of rare and 'high end' prints that fall within in my personal area of expertice. I was impressed by their detailed knowledge of the subject and supply of relevant but esoteric detail. I've never actually received anything from them, and the proof is in the putting not in the auction catalog ... MastroNet is a great place-- I've always been happy with my winnings and the customer service is strong--, but I find areas of ignorance in the prints/photographs area. This may be okay when you're auctioning 1953 Topps and T206 cards, but I suspect that it will eventually will bite them in the rear in their Americana Auctions.

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  #26  
Old 12-12-2002, 02:26 PM
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Posted By: Bob

I am going to withhold judgment on Leland's until I receive my cards. I agree with what Pete told me, that for a large auction house they sure used a small and fuzzy scan of an E98 Cobb and E95 Plank while showing the graded E95 Wagner at about double or three times the size. Maybe that should have been a red flag, but I have been after an EX or better Cobb for a long time and I'll live with a little paper loss on the verso for a reasonable price. I compared the borders (what I could tell) on the E98 Cobb to the E98 Cobb in Mastro (graded G/VG) and the borders were very similar, so I'll keep my fingers crossed.

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  #27  
Old 12-12-2002, 11:05 PM
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Posted By: David

While what I earlier said was and is accurate, I don't wish to come across as unduly critical of MastroNet. Several people at MastroNet have been kind and helpful to me, including Doug Allen, Rob Lifson and Kevin Struss.

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