ebay finds that PWCC engaged in shill bidding?

[BobC]

Originally Posted by NATCARD

I just received this email from PWCC:
PWCC Marketplace


PWCC was shocked to see eBay’s email today stating that unidentified “individuals associated with” PWCC engaged in “shill bidding.” To PWCC’s knowledge, its employees have never engaged in any behavior that violates eBay’s agreements and policies. PWCC goes to great lengths to ensure that its employees follow eBay’s rules and PWCC employees do not have access to eBay’s bidding records or information.

PWCC is considering all available legal options in response to eBay’s defamatory press release and its bad-faith action to restrict PWCC’s privileges on eBay. PWCC has only just learned of these allegations and eBay has refused to share any details supporting its allegations. Despite eBay’s unwillingness to explain its claims, PWCC will continue to conduct its own internal review to ensure that its employees have not violated eBay’s rules.

PWCC is proud of the work it has done over the years to improve eBay’s own processes and to ensure that the platform is one that users can trust. These efforts went well beyond the measures that eBay takes to ensure legitimate auction processes. For example, PWCC worked tirelessly with eBay for over 10 years to remove the bid retraction option for buyers, eliminate forced return policies for sellers, and reduce the Significantly Not As Described (SNAD) window from 30 days to 3.

While PWCC became the world’s premier site for the sale of trading cards using eBay’s platform, in recent months, eBay’s increasingly competing interests prompted PWCC to begin the process of moving on. Today’s unilateral action by eBay simply hastens PWCC’s move to its new platform.

The new platform will be live on the PWCC website very soon. The August Premier Auction will still close on August 21st and the September Premier Auction is scheduled to launch on September 1st. PWCC is excited about the future, looks forward to launching all marketplaces on its new platform, and is confident in the benefits that will bring to buyers and sellers.

This could get interesting. Could Ebay have learned of PWCC possibly starting/moving to a different site and preemptively reacted?

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by BobC

This could get interesting. Could Ebay have learned of PWCC possibly starting/moving to a different site and preemptively reacted?

I have no sympathies for PWCC, but that is most likely what happened. Ebay has a long history of cutting off their nose to spite their own face.

How dare you sell on another platform!

Oh, we're still making millions off you?

well.................how dare you sell on another platform!

Ebay doesn't give a rat's ass about bid shilling, auction interference, or any number of other things... and they never have. They've openly encouraged it without actually saying so out loud.

They're simply the jilted bride in this scenario, and being proactive and vindictive about it. Sadly, there's no good guys to root for here.

[Buythatcard]

It will be nice to see PWCC gone. They have tarnished the business with their suspected shilling.

Maybe, eBay can start paying attention to the other Sellers who have followed the rules and have been paying their fees for years.

We can get back to a nice honest business.

[taul166]

I just received an email from PWCC confirming the ebay suspension, so the action taken by ebay is true.

[JollyElm]

‘When elephants fight, the grass gets trampled.’

Although that idiom has a different connotation, I'm wondering if this move will finally be the first step in an overall easing of (skyrocketing) prices. Without their shilled prices clogging up the "Auction Prices Realized" database, perhaps 'real' sales will now define the price points.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

‘When elephants fight, the grass gets trampled.’

Although that idiom has a different connotation, I'm wondering if this move will finally be the first step in an overall easing of (skyrocketing) prices. Without their shilled prices clogging up the "Auction Prices Realized" database, perhaps 'real' sales will now define the price points.

I don't think this changes much at all in terms of the overall market. The people doing the shill bidding are the people sending in consignments and flippers who are trying to artificially inflate sold listings prices of cards that they own. They won't stop just because PWCC is gone. All those cards are just going to get sent to other consignment companies. They're still going to shill bid these auctions, they're just going to be doing it with Probstein or 4SC or whoever else now.

The responsibility to prevent shill bidding lies solely on eBay's shoulders, not the consignment companies.

[cannonballsun]

The banning of PWCC is a huge and drastic move by eBay, a move that will surely cost them money. As businesses are always driven by the desire to make money, first and foremost, there must be a very compelling reason for them to do it. The only reason that makes sense to me is that the long awaited FBI investigation is coming to a close, and PWCC is going to be hit with Mastro-like charges. EBay wants to separate themselves from PWCC, and that investigation, and those charges.
Of course, this is only my opinion. I have no facts to back this up.
I can't see eBay doing this out of spite because PWCC is going to make their own auction site. A business that operates on spite is a very unprofessional business, and all their execs should be canned, if that's what they are doing.
As always, time will tell, but this is a huge move. By the way, I didn't get the email from eBay. I do believe I am on PWCC's email list as I receive email from them all the time.
I did buy one item from PWCC, but I believe it was the only one I ever bought from them. It was an large, ungraded lot of 1962 Jell-O cards. That is my number one collecting interest, so I went for it. I have bid on other items that they have for sale, but I always get outbid. Their items generally sell for higher prices than I am willing to pay.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

It will be nice to see PWCC gone. They have tarnished the business with their suspected shilling.

Maybe, eBay can start paying attention to the other Sellers who have followed the rules and have been paying their fees for years.

We can get back to a nice honest business.

Not gone at all. Brentsy were moving to their own platform anyhow this will just accelerate things. As I said on the other forum (I think it was there) they are as resilient as a hydra. It's no secret what I think of them, but I would not make the mistake of underestimating them.

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not gone at all. Brentsy were moving to their own platform anyhow this will just accelerate things. As I said on the other forum (I think it was there) they are as resilient as a hydra. It's no secret what I think of them, but I would not make the mistake of underestimating them.

Atleast they will be gone from eBay.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

Atleast they will be gone from eBay.

True that.

[Johnny630]

Teflon Don.


Can the VCP Gentleman please remove his sales from his platform ??!

[Jersey City Giants]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

Atleast they will be gone from eBay.

can't see their own platform working nearly as well for them, especially since it was confirmed to all of us that they were shilling. I won't be bidding anymore for sure.

PS - Just got my 1921 Exhibit from you on ebay, many thanks.

[Nunzio11]

Originally Posted by Jersey City Giants

can't see their own platform working nearly as well for them, especially since it was confirmed to all of us that they were shilling. I won't be bidding anymore for sure.

PS - Just got my 1921 Exhibit from you on ebay, many thanks.

That was my thought. I'm sure this is not the publicity and fanfare PWCC was looking for when launching their own platform. Imagine the shenanigans that will go on when bidders no longer have the guise of Ebay protection to fall back on if they feel there were wronged by unethical practices.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not gone at all. Brentsy were moving to their own platform anyhow this will just accelerate things. As I said on the other forum (I think it was there) they are as resilient as a hydra. It's no secret what I think of them, but I would not make the mistake of underestimating them.

Agreed, but don't you think not being allowed on Ebay won't have some serious negative effect to PWCC's brand and sales going forward?

Unless, it has often been said on this forum how many times that a poster wished someone would set up a new online sales platform to compete, or at least offer a better alternative to, Ebay. Could that possibly be the intent/end goal that PWCC may have been looking into in possibly starting their own new online platform? If someone was going to do it, it would make sense for them to already have a strong market presence and sales, which PWCC sure seems to have, despite the pronounced lack of love they normally get on this forum.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Ebay doesn't give a rat's ass about bid shilling, auction interference, or any number of other things... and they never have. They've openly encouraged it without actually saying so out loud.

I have told this story many times before but, just to illustrate how little Ebay cares about anything resembling dishonest selling:

Years ago, they put a fake (OBVIOUSLY fake) Peyton Manning jersey on the cover of their holiday catalog to tout the low average price that Peyton Manning jerseys could be purchased for on Ebay. They are well aware of the "problem" and choose to do nothing. In fact, if you search for any top player from any sport, at least 80% of the jerseys on the site - TODAY - will be fake. Just went and searched for Peyton Manning jerseys in size 52 and, yep, the vast majority are fake.

But Ebay *doesn't care*. Because they get their money and 90% of the time, the buyers don't complain. So "everybody" wins. Unless, of course, you're the guy trying to sell a legit Peyton Manning jersey and can't afford to let it go for $45.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by BobC

This could get interesting. Could Ebay have learned of PWCC possibly starting/moving to a different site and preemptively reacted?

If this was just about removing PWCC because they have been migrating to their own platform there is NO WAY Ebay opens a legal can of worms by accusing them of shilling - they could have just quietly parted ways. Really interested to see this unfold further.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by hcv123

If this was just about removing PWCC because they have been migrating to their own platform there is NO WAY Ebay opens a legal can of worms by accusing them of shilling - they could have just quietly parted ways. Really interested to see this unfold further.

Agree with you Howard. Don't think it would have been the sole reason, but maybe a contributing factor, among many others, that finally helped tip the scales for Ebay to finally take action?

And as for legal consequences of alleged shilling, just on this forum alone, how many times have posts brought up suspected shilling and other issues with PWCC activity on Ebay? And one can then only imagine how many times people have filed complaints and reports with Ebay about such PWCC questionable sales and activities. Plus, even though we can no longer see bidders names and info on Ebay auction sales, Ebay does have all that info. Is it possible that after years of complaints and allegations against PWCC that Ebay finally went ahead and really started looking into it, and did not like what they found?

Plus, what does the seller's agreement regarding questionable activities and Ebay's ability to terminate someone really say? I don't personally know, but could there be an implied waiver of someone's ability to sue Ebay in such an instance? Also don't forget, if PWCC was to try to sue Ebay, wouldn't that also open PWCC up to having their records and activities examined and exposed in a public court of law, which they may not like?!?!