David Ortiz

[Touch'EmAll]

What are the thoughts on if David Ortiz can/will win the MVP award? I realize he is a DH, but he leads not just the AL but all of baseball in HR's, RBI's and Slugging Percentage, not to mention a very health Batting Average near the top.

Has anyone ever won the MVP in their final year? And what are chances he plays next year? I mean c'mon, retire with that kind of stat line, really? He is a Monster!

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

What are the thoughts on if David Ortiz can/will win the MVP award? I realize he is a DH, but he leads not just the AL but all of baseball in HR's, RBI's and Slugging Percentage, not to mention a very health Batting Average near the top.

Has anyone ever won the MVP in their final year? And what are chances he plays next year? I mean c'mon, retire with that kind of stat line, really? He is a Monster!

well, to correct a few things:

Ortiz is 5th in the AL in HR's (and 8th in MLB) with 25 (trumbo has 30)

He is 2nd in the AL and MLB in RBI's to Encarnacion (and RBI's are more reflective of the quality of the OBP of the hitters in front of you than your performance alone)

His SLG is 1st as you said (as is his very nice 175 wRC+) BUT, I have a hard time giving an MVP to someone who doesn't play defense. When guys like Trout, Donaldson and Altuve are just slightly behind your bat, but are also good baserunners and defenders I think they have the edge for MVP consideration. (Ortiz is 23rd in fWAR for example due to poor baserunning and lack of defense)


He is having a good year for sure, and might have another one or two in him. But hey if he wants to walk away on top, he should!

[Touch'EmAll]

My mistake on rankings - I just looked at top 50 players ranked by Batting Avg. (MLB website - stats - page 1 only).

[clydepepper]

Altuve's my pick!

[steve B]

I'd like to see Ortiz get the MVP, but I'm fairly certain he won't unless something crazy happens.

Not running well?! This year he's got 2 SB without being caught. Already it's the third most bases he's stolen in a season and a long way to go. He does run like a large 40 year old power hitter, and the Sox have seldom been a team big on running.

I don't really buy the "he's just a DH" argument for any player. Especially since people making that argument are usually the same ones who downplay defensive ability when considering players. (Not a specific statement about anyone here, just a general observation) Either defense matters or it doesn't.

I also take what's an odd view of the MVP. I don't see it as something that should be only about great stats and being on a winning team. So many times you see a player from the series winner picked, when there's players with similar numbers on crummy teams that get few votes. Who's more valuable the guy who has excellent stats on a team that would probably be a good team without him or the guy who is pretty much the only decent player on his team?
That's less common in baseball, and with a long season it's less likely for one good player to prop up a bad team, but in football it's pretty crazy.

Steve B

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by steve B

I'd like to see Ortiz get the MVP, but I'm fairly certain he won't unless something crazy happens.

Not running well?! This year he's got 2 SB without being caught. Already it's the third most bases he's stolen in a season and a long way to go. He does run like a large 40 year old power hitter, and the Sox have seldom been a team big on running.

I don't really buy the "he's just a DH" argument for any player. Especially since people making that argument are usually the same ones who downplay defensive ability when considering players. (Not a specific statement about anyone here, just a general observation) Either defense matters or it doesn't.

I also take what's an odd view of the MVP. I don't see it as something that should be only about great stats and being on a winning team. So many times you see a player from the series winner picked, when there's players with similar numbers on crummy teams that get few votes. Who's more valuable the guy who has excellent stats on a team that would probably be a good team without him or the guy who is pretty much the only decent player on his team?
That's less common in baseball, and with a long season it's less likely for one good player to prop up a bad team, but in football it's pretty crazy.

Steve B

If said DH is at or near the top in WAR then yeah I can ignore defense, but 23rd????

I tend to think that the entire concept of MVP has been twisted over the years. It was supposed to mean "player who had the best season" now it means "player who had the best season ,and the best narrative ,on the team that made the playoffs" so it seems that MVP is now contingent on other people too. (which makes no sense)

[Sean]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

Has anyone ever won the MVP in their final year?

I can't recall it ever happening, but I do recall Koufax winning the Cy Young and finishing second in the MVP in his final season (1966).

I'm glad to see Papi going out on top. I've seen too many guys play beyond the point where they should have retired. Better to go out a year too soon than a year too late.

[Touch'EmAll]

Just read that Ortiz is having the best last year of career since Dave Kingman - way back. He is still being an offensive monster - last night another HR and more RBI's, a nice top ten batting average, and an outstanding slugging %.

They way he is hitting, who would you rather have at the plate? He sure would be my go to guy. I know, DH, but honestly, he gets my vote for MVP. Would be a great way to end his career.

[jhs5120]

Stats compared to the American League:
Home Runs: 8th
Slugging %: 1st
On Base %: 2nd
OPS: 1st
Batting Average: 4th
Doubles: 1st
RBI: 2nd
OPS+: 2nd
Runs Created: 4th
Adj Batting Wins: 2nd
Extra Base Hits: 2nd
Intentional Walks: 1st

[quinnsryche]

Why won't anyone mention his failed PED test? I know it was supposed to remain a secret but it is now common knowledge, yet he's treated like royalty when others like A-Rod, Clemens and Bonds are vilified (as well they should be). What's up with that?

[packs]

It's because he himself has continued to ignore the failed test so there is no baiting from the media like there was with Clemens and Arod who made it a point to deny the label.

Also, he isn't even the best player on his own team so all the MVP talk seems moot to me. Mookie Betts is clearly the best player on the Red Sox.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

Why won't anyone mention his failed PED test? I know it was supposed to remain a secret but it is now common knowledge, yet he's treated like royalty when others like A-Rod, Clemens and Bonds are vilified (as well they should be). What's up with that?

he was in the Mitchell report, but was never caught up in scandals or named in those doctor's office raids and he has passed every test since the rule was instituted outlawing PED's.


ETA: and he isn't a jerk to fans or the press like Bonds or Clemens were. there's a lot to be said for being liked by the public