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  #1  
Old 10-24-2017, 09:52 PM
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Default 2017 Topps Certified Autograph Issues (non signed errors?)

I bought these from ebay. Haven't seen any others. Seems like maybe they weren't supposed to get into packs like this. Anyone seen any others?

I got two different Aaron Judge RC's and a Derek Jeter...

I thought they were some cool oddities and want to learn more about what I got.
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Old 10-25-2017, 08:25 AM
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Might be worth a shot at contacting Topps. Who know, maybe they'll ask you to send them back and give you the signed versions.
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Old 10-25-2017, 08:59 AM
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They are more than likely sheet cut. Topps sends out scrap to some of its larger buyers and have for as long as I know. Some people get them graded by Beckett to try to add more value to them. With a little searching you can also find all sorts of these type of unfinished products including unfinished Superfractors.
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Old 10-25-2017, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
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Might be worth a shot at contacting Topps. Who know, maybe they'll ask you to send them back and give you the signed versions.
Very doubtful, Topps has been screwed over countless times by guys getting an ugly auto. You can just wipe an auto off a card. So people would just wipe the ugly auto off and try to get Topps to give them a nicer one. Unless Topps changed their policy they do not replace cards missing an autograph even if pack pulled.
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Old 10-25-2017, 12:22 PM
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The guy I bought them from said they all came out of one box and were in packs. I didn't pull them myself so only know what he told me. He said he opened 3 cases and one box had about 10 of them. Different players.
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Old 10-25-2017, 02:32 PM
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Very doubtful, Topps has been screwed over countless times by guys getting an ugly auto. You can just wipe an auto off a card. So people would just wipe the ugly auto off and try to get Topps to give them a nicer one. Unless Topps changed their policy they do not replace cards missing an autograph even if pack pulled.

I can't speak to that but I have had some pretty easy interactions with Topps in the past when I've bought boxes that were supposed to contain an auto but didn't. They always sent me an autograph so long as I sent them the purchase coupon from the box.

Never hurts to ask.

Last edited by packs; 10-25-2017 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 10-25-2017, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
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I can't speak to that but I have had some pretty easy interactions with Topps in the past when I've bought boxes that were supposed to contain an auto but didn't. They always sent me an autograph so long as I sent them the purchase coupon from the box.

Never hurts to ask.
I know I would not feel right asking in this situation. Now if I was the person who bought the box and personally pulled them I would call Topps immediately. I can't imagine the person who pack pulled them did not contact Topps.

As an error collector I think the are super cool and if pack pulled extremely rare. Usually that does not make them worth much but they are high on the cool factor.
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Old 10-25-2017, 04:00 PM
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Yea, I had no idea as to potential value. I paid 49.99 a piece for all 3. I thought they were really cool!
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Old 10-25-2017, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
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Yea, I had no idea as to potential value. I paid 49.99 a piece for all 3. I thought they were really cool!
Do the cards have the right backs for being the auto cards?

I ask because back is 2000 I got a Wade Boggs card that was supposed to have a hat, bat , and jersey inserts according to the card front but did not have any of the 3 inserts. I called Fleer and after looking at the back of the card, the back was for the normal card. Because of that Fleer would not do nothing.
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Old 10-25-2017, 04:24 PM
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I tried putting up some better pics, took out of cardsavers. The one pic with 2 judges together aren't mine, those are the regular cards, image taken from ebay to compare differences.

You can see on the 3 "auto" cards the lightened area where the signature would be, how all the topps certified autograph cards are. They fade the color out a bit where signature should be.

I also just noticed on the back of all three in small black print it says " The signing of all topps autograph cards is witnessed by a topps representative to guarantee authenticity."
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Old 10-27-2017, 10:56 AM
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I don't think signed versions of those cards exist. Those photos are the Judge SPs for that set and I have yet to see a signed version posted. I think the 1987 version may be pack pulled, but most autos are redemption and it should not be possible to pack pull those versions signed or not.

I would venture a guess those are proofs or possibly even a fantasy card because the certified writing should be stamped and there should be more clarity on that it is an auto card on the reverse.

If signed versions do surface when the redemptions are processed, they were likely backdoored extras from the production run to replace any damage.

I looked on ebay and the amount of postings that seller had makes it impossible he would have randomly pulled 33 unsigned error cards that should not exist in the general public and list all at the same time.

I may return them because 150 is a good chunk of cash for proofs or run extras, Just an opinion.

EDIT: From looking closer it looks like the cards are stamped and the logo is foiled. Leaning more to backdoored. I would like to see the redemption checklist to see if these are there to really help define it.
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Old 10-27-2017, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinD View Post
I don't think signed versions of those cards exist. Those photos are the Judge SPs for that set and I have yet to see a signed version posted. I think the 1987 version may be pack pulled, but most autos are redemption and it should not be possible to pack pull those versions signed or not.

I would venture a guess those are proofs or possibly even a fantasy card because the certified writing should be stamped and there should be more clarity on that it is an auto card on the reverse.

If signed versions do surface when the redemptions are processed, they were likely backdoored extras from the production run to replace any damage.

I looked on ebay and the amount of postings that seller had makes it impossible he would have randomly pulled 33 unsigned error cards that should not exist in the general public and list all at the same time.

I may return them because 150 is a good chunk of cash for proofs or run extras, Just an opinion.

EDIT: From looking closer it looks like the cards are stamped and the logo is foiled. Leaning more to backdoored. I would like to see the redemption checklist to see if these are there to really help define it.
This is a general statement and not aimed at these cards. The better custom/fantasy card makers are good enough now that they are stamping and adding foil to cards.
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Old 10-27-2017, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
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This is a general statement and not aimed at these cards. The better custom/fantasy card makers are good enough now that they are stamping and adding foil to cards.
Very true, With these just being released I didn't think there was time or inclination at this point. However, still not convinced as the seller just banked 50.00x33 on this batch which is a nice quick score. The Desert Shield Topps were the start of that fake foiling in mass quantities many years ago.
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Old 10-27-2017, 12:54 PM
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These cards are perfect 2017 topps quality. I don't think there's anyway they are counterfeit. I'm pretty good at spotting fakes and recognizing inferior quality.

The backs all have the line of small black text "the signing of all topps autograph cards is witnessed by topps representatives to guarantee authenticity."

To me there's no question that they are authentic and produced by Topps.

Obviously they were intended to be signed first so I don't know exactly what happened. I guess either they made it into packs by accident or anyone's guess.

Im putting up some more back pics, its hard to get the right lighting to see the tiny dark print on dark blue back.

I appreciate all the thoughts and comments, keep em coming... I just don't see anything that would make me question them not being produced by Topps. After that, I have no idea.
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Old 10-27-2017, 12:59 PM
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https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1160279

This is link on BO forum of someone getting a Mike Trout just like one of mine, that had a sticker auto on it.
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Old 10-27-2017, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
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I appreciate all the thoughts and comments, keep em coming... I just don't see anything that would make me question them not being produced by Topps. After that, I have no idea.
I trust they are Topps, I just have a bunch of cards like this that are the result of an employee walking out the door with a pocket of oddballs. Usually they sell to a dealer who parts them out. That would explain the seller having such a large quantity.

For those backdoor cards value is in the eye of the beholder. If they are visually exciting people can chase them on a individual basis.

In the case of autos and chase cards, Topps always keeps some extra around in case of shipping damage or customer complaints for replacement. They are not meant to see the public eye, but many have over the years. These are destroyed after the product leaves shelves.
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Old 10-27-2017, 02:33 PM
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I trust they are Topps, I just have a bunch of cards like this that are the result of an employee walking out the door with a pocket of oddballs. Usually they sell to a dealer who parts them out. That would explain the seller having such a large quantity.

For those backdoor cards value is in the eye of the beholder. If they are visually exciting people can chase them on a individual basis.

In the case of autos and chase cards, Topps always keeps some extra around in case of shipping damage or customer complaints for replacement. They are not meant to see the public eye, but many have over the years. These are destroyed after the product leaves shelves.
Yea, could be. It will be interesting to see if anymore come out from other sources. The seller told me he pack pulled them but who knows?

I found this one on ebay from a different seller (Pro Debut of Kyle Lewis)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-Topps-...8AAOSw42JZKKzu

I don't know what to make of any of it.
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Old 10-27-2017, 03:03 PM
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Fwiw, the seller with the Lewis card claims it a pack pulled as well.
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Old 10-27-2017, 03:43 PM
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It would be a great racket to get these and have them signed after.
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Old 10-29-2017, 06:13 PM
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Theres a new batch on ebay from another seller now. All or same price and including this one, which makes no sense...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-TOPPS-...cAAOSwTm9Z9iLT
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Old 10-29-2017, 07:57 PM
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Theres a new batch on ebay from another seller now. All or same price and including this one, which makes no sense...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-TOPPS-...cAAOSwTm9Z9iLT
Maybe it is all the same seller. I know people that use friends and family members accounts from all over the US. They do it to get the free listings.

I looked and there is a huge variety of retired and current players for sale. Have you looked for more info over on BO? They are way better at this modern stuff.
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Old 10-29-2017, 09:28 PM
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Yea I have to check there again, haven't lurked in a few days. I don't have an account there, but maybe I'll make one and post these there too.
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Old 10-29-2017, 09:30 PM
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Not sure what to make of the Ted Williams. I don't know if there's possibly any sticker signatures left of his hat the card companies hold maybe for future releases. Obviously he's not making any on card sigs these days. But the Trout card I posted before was a sticker auto. I just am not sure if any unused sticker auto Ted Williams exist or not?
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Old 10-29-2017, 11:48 PM
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Or maybe intended to be cut and used as the front of a card including a cut sig?

Starting to look like a production problem where the signed cards were used normally, or some regular cards were run through the setup to print the auto info. Is it part of the overall printing or an overprint?
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Old 10-30-2017, 07:53 AM
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It's part of the card not printed or stamped on top. The print is seamless with rest of image.
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Old 11-01-2017, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
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Not sure what to make of the Ted Williams. I don't know if there's possibly any sticker signatures left of his hat the card companies hold maybe for future releases. Obviously he's not making any on card sigs these days. But the Trout card I posted before was a sticker auto. I just am not sure if any unused sticker auto Ted Williams exist or not?
You are right, that card does make no sense at all.

I can't remember any sticker autos of Ted's existing. I don't think the card companies have an issue I can remember them on prior to 2002.
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Old 11-02-2017, 07:54 PM
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Yea, that card is so weird that I'd think if these cards were totally counterfeit, which I can't see being the case, but if they were any counterfeiter with half a brain should know enough not to make an autograph error like this of Ted Williams in 2017!

Makes me think something weird happened at Topps factory. But again, I really have no clue with these at all!
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Old 11-02-2017, 08:07 PM
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Just looked now,again for more on ebay saw a Roberto Clemente!

I just bought it...

Maybe I'm crazy, time will tell I guess.
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Old 11-02-2017, 09:34 PM
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I find it strange that not a single person on BO has pulled one. Some of those guys bust crazy amounts of wax. Plus there are a few players showing up that there is no way to even have a autographed sticker for let alone on card autos.

This would make sense back in the late 80's/early90's when error cards were popular. Most younger collectors now see them as complete trash. So I find it hard to believe Topps would be doing it on purpose.

I did find the bridge post funny.
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Old 11-03-2017, 04:57 PM
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Maybe these particular cards were configured on a sheet in such a way as to have accidentally received the autograph notation, with no intention of having any signed versions (Clemente & Williams as subjects all but confirm that thought). Seems like a printing error to me.
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Old 11-03-2017, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
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Maybe these particular cards were configured on a sheet in such a way as to have accidentally received the autograph notation, with no intention of having any signed versions (Clemente & Williams as subjects all but confirm that thought). Seems like a printing error to me.
Too many things to be a printing error IMO. There is text on the card back about autographs. Not only is there the extra printing on the front there is also a lightened area on the cards for an autograph.
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Old 11-03-2017, 07:54 PM
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Yea, I have no clue. Hopefully more surface from more new sellers and more info gets shed on them eventually one way or another.
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  #33  
Old 11-04-2017, 01:58 PM
mrmopar mrmopar is offline
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Just tossing out a guess, as there really is no other good explanation for it, especially for guys who could not have possibly signed cards. I don't know how card images are created for printing. Maybe there is a template that someone clicks an "autograph" box on and it adds the predetermined text to the card image?

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Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
Too many things to be a printing error IMO. There is text on the card back about autographs. Not only is there the extra printing on the front there is also a lightened area on the cards for an autograph.
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Last edited by mrmopar; 11-04-2017 at 01:58 PM.
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  #34  
Old 11-04-2017, 05:37 PM
steve B steve B is offline
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I'm not sure of the specifics of the modern process, but the images are usually done on a computer now, and some presses can make the plate on the press, all electronically.

I'm thinking the cards are done in the software in layers representing the colors. If that's what's done, the extra text might be its own layer. It looks to me like the Clemente and Williams don't have a light area for an auto. So maybe someone forgot to turn the autograph text layer off and the system made a plate with the text on cards that shouldn't have it?

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  #35  
Old 11-04-2017, 06:28 PM
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bnorth bnorth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
I'm not sure of the specifics of the modern process, but the images are usually done on a computer now, and some presses can make the plate on the press, all electronically.

I'm thinking the cards are done in the software in layers representing the colors. If that's what's done, the extra text might be its own layer. It looks to me like the Clemente and Williams don't have a light area for an auto. So maybe someone forgot to turn the autograph text layer off and the system made a plate with the text on cards that shouldn't have it?

Steve B
Looked at the Ted Williams and it looks to have the light area to me,
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  #36  
Old 11-04-2017, 10:56 PM
bigfanNY bigfanNY is offline
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From opening decent amount of topps this year and last both base and chrome I do not like the looks of the cards. Backs of Auto's don't have the normal backs and a small section that says auto edition. They have a common back with other Auto's from same series. I have seen guys walk around shows with a stack of these fantasy ( Is that the word we use now..) cards and at $10 or $20 a pop can pocket some decent profit. Could they all be from a sheet that went down the wrong line Maybe...but I just don't like em.. JMHO
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  #37  
Old 11-05-2017, 06:24 PM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
Looked at the Ted Williams and it looks to have the light area to me,
You're right, it does.

I wonder if the lightening is automatic in the software? Maybe when the autograph text layer is active?
I really should stop by the place I used to work and see if they'll give me a quick "tour" of how the new stuff works.
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