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  #1  
Old 09-17-2006, 09:29 AM
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Posted By: barrysloate

As I already have shared with Ted, yesterday I picked up a collection of nearly 500 tobacco cards, primarily T206 of course, that has resided with an original family for nearly a century. While the two highlights are a T206 Plank and a square Ramly of Anderson (out of a total of only 3 Ramlys in the whole collection) what is most interesting is that over 300 of the T206 have Sovereign backs, and there is no duplication. For those who are researching backs I am currently sorting them all out and if you want to know a specific one, just ask on this thread and once they are alphabetized, I'll look them up. I just went through them briefly yesterday, and if I am not mistaken all four Cobbs, three Mattys, two Johnsons, and two of the three Youngs are Sovereign. Don't quote me though. I'm starting to sort these all out today. Hopefully there will be a few toughies to add to the master list.

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  #2  
Old 09-17-2006, 09:40 AM
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Posted By: cn

Barry that is awesome. I wish I was spending my weekend sorting out 500 T206 cards!

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  #3  
Old 09-17-2006, 09:41 AM
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Posted By: joe

Congratulations on the find Barry, there is nothing better than going through a new group of cards. Pretty exciting looking through card after card even if you have seen all before in other finds or groups.

Joe

Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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  #4  
Old 09-17-2006, 09:46 AM
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Posted By: Scott T

You reek of awesomeness!

Congrats!

Scott

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  #5  
Old 09-17-2006, 09:50 AM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I wonder if anyting can be learned about distribution by cataloging this collection? Barry, do you know the story of how these cards were collected? Was it one smoker who just put his cards away? Was it a kid who may have traded with friends?

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  #6  
Old 09-17-2006, 09:52 AM
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Posted By: barrysloate

It's been awhile, and it is fun, although alphabetizing can be a tad slow.

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  #7  
Old 09-17-2006, 09:55 AM
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Posted By: barrysloate

Dan- the cards belonged to the consignor's great uncle, who obviously smoked enough Sovereigns to put himself in an early grave. But the collection can't be totally random because out of some 475 cards, there is not one duplicate. That is just mathematically impossible. So you would guess the original owner actually did a little swapping or got rid of some. There's also a T205 Dolly Gray with stats in the group, but it's a beater.

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  #8  
Old 09-17-2006, 09:55 AM
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Posted By: Drew

Congrats Barry on the great find. What condition is the Plank?


Drew

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  #9  
Old 09-17-2006, 09:57 AM
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Posted By: jackgoodman

I'm always amazed these days, when there are still great collections/accumulations being discovered. I always think that everything available has seen the light of day. Living on the West Coast, we just don't see those types of original collections coming out of the closet/garage/attic. Congratulations and thanks for sharing.

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  #10  
Old 09-17-2006, 10:04 AM
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Posted By: barrysloate

Plank looks VG, but it will either get a 30 or a 40, not sure. It's a Sweet Cap 350.

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  #11  
Old 09-17-2006, 10:15 AM
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Posted By: ItsStillOnlyGil

I hate the role of naysayer, and even worse the one doing a rain dance on parade day.

But didn't TRex just report two t206 finds last week?

At least David Levin trys to hold it down to one OJ find per year. This year was the Indianapolis find. Last year it was the Oregon find.

$1 says the next OJ find is east of the Mason Dixon Line (wherever that is). I think it is down the block from the continental divide.

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  #12  
Old 09-17-2006, 10:29 AM
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Posted By: barrysloate

OJ finds are clearly rarer and more exotic. Nearly every find I have ever made was a T205-T206 collection. That's a testament to just how many were printed and how popular it was to save them. I think I may have been offered two OJ collections in my career, and lost out on both of them.

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  #13  
Old 09-17-2006, 10:40 AM
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Posted By: Bill

Great find. I am working on the "Super Set", trying to find all the front/back combinations. If you could send me an email, I would like to forward a blank spreadsheet to you, so you could record your front/back combo's and I can transfer them to the "Super Set". Thanks, Bill Brown

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  #14  
Old 09-17-2006, 10:47 AM
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

GIL

My major "find" was of an original 400+ all-Piedmont T206 collection and
with 25-So.Lgers with OLD MILL backs. And, another T206 collection (250
cards, but random distribution of backs).

BARRY

You have to inquire as to the actual part of the country this major Sovereign
find came from......it's a tremendous find.

I really inquired into my recent T206 "find" and it is amazing what you can
discover.

T-Rex TED

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  #15  
Old 09-17-2006, 10:56 AM
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Posted By: Steve M.

are these going to be in your Novemeber auction?

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  #16  
Old 09-17-2006, 10:57 AM
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Posted By: ItsStillOnlyGil

Oh geeze: a Soverign find is different from a Piedmont find. How embarassed I am to not know that.

What?

You guys amaze me!

I keep saying to myself "it is just like mintmarks on coins" But that don't really make much sense either.

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  #17  
Old 09-17-2006, 11:02 AM
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Posted By: barrysloate

Ted- the owner lives in upstate NY, and I think his great uncle lived there too, but when I next speak to him I will ask him for sure. Steve, yes they will be auctioned but that's my last mention of that on this thread. Don't want to bend the board rules.

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  #18  
Old 09-17-2006, 11:19 AM
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

BARRY

My experience is that the residence of the current source of these T206 collections
is usually irrelevant. The seller of the Piedmont collection I acquired lived over 1000
miles from where his Grandfather originally collected the T206's in his youth.

And, in your case as in mine, we are talking about cards from FACTORY 25 Virginia.

TED Z

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  #19  
Old 09-17-2006, 11:22 AM
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Posted By: Matt E.

Barry,

I was not able to get through on you email for some reason. Could you please email me regarding the T205 Gray.

Thanks,

Matt

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  #20  
Old 09-17-2006, 11:27 AM
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Posted By: barrysloate

Fair point. I will ask him when we next speak.

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  #21  
Old 09-17-2006, 01:28 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

Bill- I sent you an email two hours ago and it just came back as undeliverable. Please try me at bsloate@ att.net.

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  #22  
Old 09-17-2006, 10:26 PM
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Posted By: barry arnold

Congratulations, Barry!

What great timing for the T206 super set research and for TRex et al.'s
delineation of the back's trajectory from Piedmont onward!

Aren't these exciting times?!

All the best,

Barry

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  #23  
Old 09-17-2006, 11:43 PM
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Posted By: Cobby33

That's awesome, Barry. Thanks for sharing!

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  #24  
Old 09-18-2006, 06:33 AM
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Posted By: Ed McCollum

September Recent Pick-Up threads 3-10, showing all nearly 500 cards?

Congrats, Barry. If playing in the major leagues is like "living the dream' for some, this find would be the same for some of us who gave up on that dream long ago.

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  #25  
Old 09-18-2006, 06:50 AM
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Posted By: barrysloate

Ed- I don't think we'll see pictures of all these cards quite yet. Besides, this is a consignment, not an addition to my collection. Maybe later today if I get time I'll put a picture of the Plank on this thread.

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  #26  
Old 09-18-2006, 06:51 AM
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Posted By: dennis

congrats on the t206's!! how cool to sort out cards that are new to the hobby & have been hidden away all these years. a collectors dream!!

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  #27  
Old 09-18-2006, 07:12 AM
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Posted By: leon

First of all that's a great find of T206's. I think this is one of those times when we can say that anyone is more than welcome, including you Barry, to talk all you care to about the cards...especially in this thread. The board is all about this kind of stuff. I realize they will be auctioned but this is a great find and an exception. For the record anyone that has a, new to the hobby find, of hundreds of prewar cards, can post on the main forum about them. Please don't worry about the board rules in this instance. We ALL LOVE hearing about this stuff and can discern between hawksters (is that a word?) who are "everyday selling" on the main forum and a great find like this one.......carry on...please...

edited to try to complete a thought....and not be so jumbled

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  #28  
Old 09-18-2006, 07:16 AM
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Posted By: barrysloate

Leon- I was keenly aware of this and really wanted it to be a discussion about the preponderance of Sovereign backs, some which may be unknown with certain players. I have been very careful to leave the word "auction" entirely out of my discussion. If it's gone too far I'm willing to pull the plug for now.

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  #29  
Old 09-18-2006, 08:02 AM
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Posted By: warshawlaw

Proves something I said when I had my mini find a few months ago: we forget that original T card collections were formed by smokers who were generally loyal to particular brands. Barry's Sovereign find is entirely logical when you consider that the collector was probably the child of heavy smokers who smoked that brand. I would expect that many if not most original T card accumulations would be weighted heavily towards one or two brands, reflecting the smoking preferences of the accumulators and/or their families.

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  #30  
Old 09-18-2006, 11:25 AM
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Posted By: Trae R.

Super cool, Barry! I would love to see the Plank. Thanks!

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  #31  
Old 09-18-2006, 11:39 AM
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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Great thread so far. It's nice to see finds like this openly discussed because it's an amazing historical link into the past of card collecting in the infant stages. I think one of the best parts of this find is the distribution of backs. Like Adam said, it showed brand loyalty was something that goes back many years. I can't wait to read more about this find and the history behind it. It would be so neat to find out more about the person that put this collection together, where they lived when they put it together and how long it took them to put it together. There's a good chance a lot of questions may not be answered but any information would be great.

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  #32  
Old 09-18-2006, 11:57 AM
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Posted By: Scot Reader

Barry,

I think there are only 620 theoretical unique front/back combinations for Sovereign so the 300+ different in this one find includes about half of the theoretical possibilities--and probably well over half of the front/back combos that are ACTUALLY possible. Truly amazing!

I can't wait to get Bill's updated spreadsheet with the data from this new find.

Scot

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  #33  
Old 09-18-2006, 12:13 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

Scot- Bill asked me to input the whole group but I think I will have to put that project off for a few weeks. I have other more pressing things to take care of regarding the cards. I will do it when things quiet down. The owner has told me that his relatives lived in Rochester, but he is not sure exactly how the collection was accumulated.

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  #34  
Old 09-18-2006, 06:27 PM
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Posted By: Scot Reader


Barry,
300 inputs is a pretty significant time commitment. It will be great to see the data when you get the chance to produce it.
Scot

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  #35  
Old 09-18-2006, 06:37 PM
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Posted By: Bruce Babcock

Congrats, Barry. A great find.

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  #36  
Old 09-19-2006, 06:52 AM
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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Stuff like this is GREAT to hear. It proves that there are still "finds" out there - congrats, Barry. Can't wait to see them.

-Al

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