This is the problem with grading...

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Dan- do the graders know if a card they are examining is being submitted for the twentieth time? Would that kind of pressure them into finally giving it that hoped for bump, especially if it is a good customer?

I don't know about pressure, but what about incentive? A dirty grader (and I believe there are some) might be tempted to bump a card if he knew the submitter and there was something in it for him - say like 5% ($19K) or 10% ($38K) of the profit?

[Leon]

If I were the authorities and had any inkling of wrongdoing, or was investigating the hobby, I would probably have a conversation with the grader that bumped the card, the submitter and the graders manager. It wouldn't hurt to to see what they would say...

And if it's true that the card went from a 9 to a 10 after that many bumps, then I really don't know what to say about the people playing the "10" game. I wouldn't want to be the last one holding that potato though.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I give the owner credit for persistence.

[barrysloate]

Dan- I realize submissions are supposed to be anonymous. But take a high profile card like that, and assume the same grader has seen it at least a few times over that period, and it's really not all that anonymous anymore. When you are working at a company full time, you get to know alot about what is going on, and most would certainly recognize that card. I mean, we're talking about the same card in the grading room twenty times!

David- I've always been concerned with graders accepting money under the table. That's why it's so difficult to take any of these grades seriously. Of course, I have no idea what may actually go on.

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

That's why it's so difficult to take any of these grades seriously.

I believe if you agree with a grade, take it seriously. If not, then don't. We grade the graders with our choices of what specific cards we choose for our collections.

Sometimes the card meets the stated criteria and looks great. Sometimes it meets the criteria, but lacks eye appeal. Sometimes the card is under graded, and merits a bump-- if one wants that third-party validation or enhancement of their financial outlay, or is just out to flip it for profit. TPGs are just rendering their opinion, that's all it is, end of the day. And different graders will assign different grades to different cards on different days. It's also a business for profit; hence it's in their best interest to err on the side of stringent grading, so as to spur submissions for reviews or crack and resubs.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It really is bizarre in one sense that putting a different flip on the same card makes a $375 K difference. But there is a market for flips that is now just as strong as the market for cards, so that's how it goes. PS In my opinion there is no meaningful difference between a 9 and 10 other than the flip. But in a market for flips that is a meaningful difference.

[glchen]

Frankly, IMHO, this is the stupidity of buying 10's when there is often little if any difference with a 9 other than 10X the price tag.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It really is bizarre in one sense that putting a different flip on the same card makes a $375 K difference. But there is a market for flips that is now just as strong as the market for cards, so that's how it goes. PS In my opinion there is no meaningful difference between a 9 and 10 other than the flip. But in a market for flips that is a meaningful difference.

You know what they say....in the land of the blind a one-eyed man is king!!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I don't know about pressure, but what about incentive? A dirty grader (and I believe there are some) might be tempted to bump a card if he knew the submitter and there was something in it for him - say like 5% ($19K) or 10% ($38K) of the profit?

That is inherent in third party grading.