Reach guides

[Forever Young]

Does anyone know when reach guides were published. By when, I mean what time of the year. Was it a yearly, consistant thing? Were they a recap of the previous year?? What was the purpose of the guedes? For example, the 1924 guide shows composites of images of players on the 1923 teams. Were all the images in a 1924 guide from 1923? I am interested in figuring out release dates of the early to mid20s.

[thecatspajamas]

I don't know what time of year they were published, but yes, all photos in the Reach guides were of the previous year's team (so all team photos in the 1924 guide would be of the 1923 teams, and so on).

As for the purpose of the guides, I think we take for granted the easy availability of any and all information, especially sports-related. Publications like the Reach and Spalding guides were like the "baseball bible" in those days. Fans could have the entire year, across all leagues major and minor, covered in one handy publication, and with pictures! The format must have been popular, because it was used by several different publishers of annual guides.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

I don't know what time of year they were published, but yes, all photos in the Reach guides were of the previous year's team (so all team photos in the 1924 guide would be of the 1923 teams, and so on).

As for the purpose of the guides, I think we take for granted the easy availability of any and all information, especially sports-related. Publications like the Reach and Spalding guides were like the "baseball bible" in those days. Fans could have the entire year, across all leagues major and minor, covered in one handy publication, and with pictures! The format must have been popular, because it was used by several different publishers of annual guides.

So would all the photos used for the composites be from the previous year too then? See the example below..IT SAYS : "A GROUP OF NEW YORK YANKEES--WORLD'S CHAMPION'S 1923" but I wanted to see if it was known if all the images were from 1923. So was the purpose then, to recap the previous year? Was there anything published about 1924 in the 1924 copy for example? Did they give a schedule? I would guess it was published prior to the season in 1924 if not/or if schedule was in there. Is that a reasonable assumption??

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Forever Young

So was the purpose then, to recap the previous year?

I believe so, yes. To quote Mr. Spalding, his guide was intended to be an "authoritative chronicle of base ball," meant to appeal to statisticians and historians of the sport.

There is a good overview of base ball guides on the SABR website:
http://research.sabr.org/journals/ba...-guides-galore

[barrysloate]

All the guides, Reach and Spalding alike, offered statistical recaps of the previous season. I would assume they were available in the spring, right before the baseball season started.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Agree with Barry.

[Hot Springs Bathers]

I believe the guides both Spalding and Reach were sold beginning in March of each year. I remember seeing ads in the BASEBALL MAGAZINE starting with the March issues.

The old BBM was very current opposed to magazines today that seem to be printed months in advance. It was more like SPORTS ILLUSTRATED is today so I would think the ads signaled the opening of sales? Just my guess.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by Hot Springs Bathers

I believe the guides both Spalding and Reach were sold beginning in March of each year. I remember seeing ads in the BASEBALL MAGAZINE starting with the March issues.

The old BBM was very current opposed to magazines today that seem to be printed months in advance. It was more like SPORTS ILLUSTRATED is today so I would think the ads signaled the opening of sales? Just my guess.

Does anyone have a baseball magazine from jan or feb 1924 to confirm this ? If this is accurate, it would then be safe to assume as fact that all photos used for the 1924 issue were images from 1923 or prior. This photo dating is what I am after . Thoughts???

[barrysloate]

If the guides were issued in March, as has been suggested, there would be a very small window for the photographs to have been taken in the same year. Maybe a 1924 Guide could have a photo that was taken in January, 1924, I guess that's possible, but they would likely have been shot in 1923 or earlier. We can't assume every player posed for a studio shot every season, so when the guides were assembled the most recent available photograph would have been used.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

If the guides were issued in March, as has been suggested, there would be a very small window for the photographs to have been taken in the same year. Maybe a 1924 Guide could have a photo that was taken in January, 1924, I guess that's possible, but they would likely have been shot in 1923 or earlier. We can't assume every player posed for a studio shot every season, so when the guides were assembled the most recent available photograph would have been used.

That being said, I believe I have a special photo that just got a ton more special. Below is my rookie Gehrig, conlon shot... it was published in the 1924 reach guide and listed as part of the 1923 team; "GROUP OF NEW YORK YANKEES-- WORLD'S CHAMPIONS 1923" in tHE caption above the names. It would be one of the earliest Gehrig photos in a yankee uniform as well as the only known Conlon from 1923. This is why I am so interested. I really do want to learn about these guides though as they have a ton of info(including pictures). I like pictures..haha.

[barrysloate]

Fantastic photo Ben, and 1923 sounds right.

[GKreindler]

Ben,

I think it's fair to say that you've got a Gehrig rookie photo in your hands.

Though the '24 Reach book shows the '23 team composite, since it was probably laid out and printed early in the year, in my opinion, there's VERY little chance that the photo could have been taken in early '24. And besides, Gehrig was with Hartford for the majority of the season until late August. Though he was with the big guys in spring training that year, Huggins had him sent down to the Eastern League on April 15, as soon as waivers cleared. Ben's photo shows Gehrig clearly at the big ballpark in the south Bronx, so there's no way that he even appeared in the first game of the season for the Yanks since they didn't open up at home until April 23.

Also, check out one of the other Gehrig Conlon shots from '24:



You'll notice that if nothing else, Gehrig's sleeves in Ben's photo are the longer length, rather than the above, which has them trimmed at the elbow. So, that should at least mean that the photos were not taken on the same day, as a lot of Conlon's action/posed photos from the same year were (see some of Ruth's portraits from '27).

Also, you can see that a crowd has started to gather in the stands, so there's no way that this isn't before some sort of game. But that's not even the most important part of Ben's photo.

Now, the light and shadow placements on Gehrig and the dirt show a lot of interesting stuff. If you know Yankee Stadium very well, you know that left field was always the sun garden, and the right field grandstands would cast their shadow somewhat along the first baseline. The angle and length of the shadow changed in relation to the angle of the sun as it went across the sky, which also varied from month to month. In September and October, the shadow would be much longer and really echo the shape of the grandstand almost perfectly. And, during batting practice for a game in the 1920s, which would be sometime around 1-2 at the earliest (regular season games started at around 3-3:30), that grandstand shadow would extend to right around home plate. If you've ever seen footage of the World Series from the 1950s - especially during Larsen's perfect game - you'll see how the shadows travel across the field over game time, but pretty much connect directly with home plate at one o'clock. The significance in this means that looking at Ben's photo, you can tell that the angle of the shadow is a lot 'shorter', thereby making it closer to the mid June or July months. Gehrig was NOT with the Yankees in those months in 1924, as he spent 134 games with the Senators.

However, in 1923, he was. He supposedly made his first trip to Yankee Stadium on June 11 of that year, both to work out with the team and to watch the game from the bench. For the next few weeks, he rode that bench, got in a few spots here and there, and then eventually was sent back down to Hartford on August 1 before returning again at the end of September.

In other words, Ben, I'm pretty sure your photo is not only from '23, but probably from that first stint in between mid-June and August. The young, newly-turned 20 year old Gehrig was getting his first taste of big league ball.

Congrats!

Graig

[Runscott]

Great find. I used to have all of the Reach and Spalding Guides from about 1890-1926 - picked them up looking for the original photos used for various card sets. What I found was that the photos could be quite a bit older than the date listed for the guides, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to find out at some point that your photo is even older than 1923.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by GKreindler

Ben,

I think it's fair to say that you've got a Gehrig rookie photo in your hands.

Though the '24 Reach book shows the '23 team composite, since it was probably laid out and printed early in the year, in my opinion, there's VERY little chance that the photo could have been taken in early '24. And besides, Gehrig was with Hartford for the majority of the season until late August. Though he was with the big guys in spring training that year, Huggins had him sent down to the Eastern League on April 15, as soon as waivers cleared. Ben's photo shows Gehrig clearly at the big ballpark in the south Bronx, so there's no way that he even appeared in the first game of the season for the Yanks since they didn't open up at home until April 23.

Also, check out one of the other Gehrig Conlon shots from '24:





You'll notice that if nothing else, Gehrig's sleeves in Ben's photo are the longer length, rather than the above, which has them trimmed at the elbow. So, that should at least mean that the photos were not taken on the same day, as a lot of Conlon's action/posed photos from the same year were (see some of Ruth's portraits from '27).

Also, you can see that a crowd has started to gather in the stands, so there's no way that this isn't before some sort of game. But that's not even the most important part of Ben's photo.

Now, the light and shadow placements on Gehrig and the dirt show a lot of interesting stuff. If you know Yankee Stadium very well, you know that left field was always the sun garden, and the right field grandstands would cast their shadow somewhat along the first baseline. The angle and length of the shadow changed in relation to the angle of the sun as it went across the sky, which also varied from month to month. In September and October, the shadow would be much longer and really echo the shape of the grandstand almost perfectly. And, during batting practice for a game in the 1920s, which would be sometime around 1-2 at the earliest (regular season games started at around 3-3:30), that grandstand shadow would extend to right around home plate. If you've ever seen footage of the World Series from the 1950s - especially during Larsen's perfect game - you'll see how the shadows travel across the field over game time, but pretty much connect directly with home plate at one o'clock. The significance in this means that looking at Ben's photo, you can tell that the angle of the shadow is a lot 'shorter', thereby making it closer to the mid June or July months. Gehrig was NOT with the Yankees in those months in 1924, as he spent 134 games with the Senators.

However, in 1923, he was. He supposedly made his first trip to Yankee Stadium on June 11 of that year, both to work out with the team and to watch the game from the bench. For the next few weeks, he rode that bench, got in a few spots here and there, and then eventually was sent back down to Hartford on August 1 before returning again at the end of September.

In other words, Ben, I'm pretty sure your photo is not only from '23, but probably from that first stint in between mid-June and August. The young, newly-turned 20 year old Gehrig was getting his first taste of big league ball.

Congrats!

Graig

Here's two documented 1923 & 1924 photos for uniform reference, Graig.

1923GehrigJoinsYanks.jpg1924-Gehrig-BATTING.jpg

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Great find. I used to have all of the Reach and Spalding Guides from about 1890-1926 - picked them up looking for the original photos used for various card sets. What I found was that the photos could be quite a bit older than the date listed for the guides, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to find out at some point that your photo is even older than 1923.

Thank you Barry and Scott.
Although there is no way it can be earlier than 1923 with my photo, I have noticed that a couple of the portraits were form 1922..so I do see what you are saying Scott.

Graig.. WOW.. thanks for the time you put into this! You da man!

PS: Jimmy... quit showing off! This is my moment!!! HAHA

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Forever Young

PS: Jimmy... quit showing off! This is my moment!!! HAHA

Jimmy is so 'Yankee-huge' with memorabilia, I wouldn't be surprised if he is holding back on us.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Jimmy is so 'Yankee-huge' with memorabilia, I wouldn't be surprised if he is holding back on us.

I'm an Angels fan at heart, Scott... but what I collect is dead Yankees. However, I am holding out on my Beatles stuff.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by thekingofclout

I'm an Angels fan at heart, Scott... but what I collect is dead Yankees. However, I am holding out on my Beatles stuff.

Odd how that works - vintage vs modern collecting, especially when you grew up rooting for one of the non-16...says an Astros fan.