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  #11  
Old 06-20-2017, 09:21 AM
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JustinD JustinD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
^^+1^^ Clemens was awesome beyond belief and in my biased opinion the best to ever throw the ball.
this.
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  #12  
Old 06-22-2017, 03:39 AM
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Why do Nolan Ryan's cards outsell Tom Seaver, when Seaver was a far superior pitcher?
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  #13  
Old 06-29-2017, 12:58 AM
AGuinness AGuinness is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim65 View Post
Why do Nolan Ryan's cards outsell Tom Seaver, when Seaver was a far superior pitcher?
I was thinking the same thing as I was reading the earlier posts. Beat me to the punch!
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  #14  
Old 06-29-2017, 01:05 AM
AGuinness AGuinness is offline
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Originally Posted by Sierra79 View Post
If you're looking at their main brand RC and XRC cards Clemens has the 85 Topps Tiffany and the 84 Fleer Update cards, which are relatively rarer than what maddux has - the more produced 87 Topps Tiffany, 87 Fleer glossy, and no main brand XRC.
Looks like recent sales on eBay have the PSA 10s of the 1984 Fleer Update going for about $600 each, while the BGS 9.5s of the same card are going for $400.

I was under the impression that BGS was more desirable for modern cards while PSA for vintage, although something like this makes me wonder where the line of demarcation is for when that preference changes.
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  #15  
Old 08-08-2017, 03:31 PM
Davino Davino is offline
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Clemens was a more dramatic pitcher, and he has 7 Cy Youngs, struck out 20 in a game, he was at the very tops of the greatest ever.
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  #16  
Old 08-08-2017, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim65 View Post
Why do Nolan Ryan's cards outsell Tom Seaver, when Seaver was a far superior pitcher?
Two numbers 7 and 5000.
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  #17  
Old 08-08-2017, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Davino View Post
Clemens was a more dramatic pitcher, and he has 7 Cy Youngs, struck out 20 in a game, he was at the very tops of the greatest ever.
100% agree. Both are amongst the best with completely different styles, but Clemens was far more dramatic and had a longer period of 'dramatic' dominance. It also doesn't hurt that he played for the Red Sox and Yankees. PEDS or not, his 7 Cy young awards says a lot.
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  #18  
Old 08-10-2017, 12:40 PM
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If you're comparing rookie cards, most of it is accounted for by Clemens's cards being from less overproduced sets. Pretty clear to me though that Clemens was the better pitcher anyway. Statistically (sabermetrically anyway) he's the best since Walter Johnson.

The way I've run the stats, I come up with the following rankings for these guys.

Among all MLB players
Clemens: 5
Seaver: 16
Johnson: 22
Maddux: 26
Martinez: 28
Ryan: 101


Among MLB pitchers
Clemens: 3
Seaver: 6
Johnson: 8
Maddux: 9
Martinez: 11
Ryan: 38
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  #19  
Old 08-10-2017, 07:07 PM
Davino Davino is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darwinbulldog View Post
If you're comparing rookie cards, most of it is accounted for by Clemens's cards being from less overproduced sets. Pretty clear to me though that Clemens was the better pitcher anyway. Statistically (sabermetrically anyway) he's the best since Walter Johnson.

The way I've run the stats, I come up with the following rankings for these guys.

Among all MLB players
Clemens: 5
Seaver: 16
Johnson: 22
Maddux: 26
Martinez: 28
Ryan: 101


Among MLB pitchers
Clemens: 3
Seaver: 6
Johnson: 8
Maddux: 9
Martinez: 11
Ryan: 38
Wow, that is very interesting, look how much better Seaver was than Ryan!!
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  #20  
Old 08-11-2017, 09:41 PM
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Sierra79 Sierra79 is offline
Scott Silvers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darwinbulldog View Post
If you're comparing rookie cards, most of it is accounted for by Clemens's cards being from less overproduced sets. Pretty clear to me though that Clemens was the better pitcher anyway. Statistically (sabermetrically anyway) he's the best since Walter Johnson.

The way I've run the stats, I come up with the following rankings for these guys.

Among all MLB players
Clemens: 5
Seaver: 16
Johnson: 22
Maddux: 26
Martinez: 28
Ryan: 101


Among MLB pitchers
Clemens: 3
Seaver: 6
Johnson: 8
Maddux: 9
Martinez: 11
Ryan: 38
I am a huge Maddux fan, but there isn't any denying, regardless of the PED shadow, that Clemens is in a league of his own. Statistics aside, Clemens also too pitched in the steroid era against athletes who, whether or not used PEDs, were far more physically developed than players from earlier eras whom he is measured against. When he gets inducted, and he will, high grade examples of his 84 Fleer Update and 85 Topps Tiffany should see a nice bump. I think as the dust settles from the PED scandal people will take a look at him and what he acomplished with a greater sense of appreciation.
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