Goldin Auctions - Roberto Clemente Signed 8x10 Photograph PSA/DNA 10

[mdallen22]

Hello All,

This Clemente autograph is one of the nicest examples of a Clemente signature that I have ever seen, and that's evident in the Gem Mint 10 rating it was given.

My concern - is this autograph "too" nice? I don't know that I have ever come across an early era style Clemente signature on a 8x10 as strong as this example. I've seen many signed pieces displaying his signature he used later in his career when he "tweaked" his penmanship that were given high grades but few early on in his career. I would like to hear from the Clemente and autograph experts out there to voice their opinions of its authenticity. Anyone have any concerns and think maybe its a fake? I personally would love to add this to my collection but I value peoples opinions on here and would like to see what others think.

http://goldinauctions.com/LotDetail....NA-GEM-MINT-10

Best,
Mike

[smtjoy]

Clemente collector here but not an autograph expert. I do own a pre rookie Clemente auto from a spring training game against yankees, you can use to compare with-

[mdallen22]

Thanks for the comparison. Any idea on what type of pen was used on the 8x10 piece GA has?

[packs]

Mine is rough but here is an example from his rookie season.

[mdallen22]

Does anyone have any examples of fakes? Maybe some Marino faked Clemente's that were part of Operation Bullpen?

[kengoldin]

That was the nicest Clemente single signed photo I have seen, and in my years I have seen quite a few. I would not run it if I was not comfortably with it, and I DID PERSONALLY reject some PSA and/or JSA items from this auction that were consigned. I have no problem rejecting an item that is 'certified or pulling an item that is 'certified' if I feel it is warranted. I also stand behind the autographs at Goldin Auctions and if the winning bidder had a problem with this item, I would take it back.
I hope this answers any questions you had Mike
regards
Ken Goldin
ken@goldinauctions.com

[UnVme7]

Originally Posted by kengoldin

That was the nicest Clemente single signed photo I have seen, and in my years I have seen quite a few. I would not run it if I was not comfortably with it, and I DID PERSONALLY reject some PSA and/or JSA items from this auction that were consigned. I have no problem rejecting an item that is 'certified or pulling an item that is 'certified' if I feel it is warranted. I also stand behind the autographs at Goldin Auctions and if the winning bidder had a problem with this item, I would take it back.
I hope this answers any questions you had Mike
regards
Ken Goldin
ken@goldinauctions.com

Good to see you posting over here, Ken. Don't be a stranger..

[mdallen22]

Originally Posted by kengoldin

That was the nicest Clemente single signed photo I have seen, and in my years I have seen quite a few. I would not run it if I was not comfortably with it, and I DID PERSONALLY reject some PSA and/or JSA items from this auction that were consigned. I have no problem rejecting an item that is 'certified or pulling an item that is 'certified' if I feel it is warranted. I also stand behind the autographs at Goldin Auctions and if the winning bidder had a problem with this item, I would take it back.
I hope this answers any questions you had Mike
regards
Ken Goldin
ken@goldinauctions.com

Ken - It's great to hear from you and to know you stand by the items you put in your catalog, even if that means rejecting certified pieces.

For the record, I was not implying GA is negligent and would list fake auto's but, as I mentioned, I value the opinions on this forum and wanted to inquire because it is simply the single nicest Clemente signature I've ever seen. I realize you do your due diligence before consigning a piece and its nice to see you would take it back if there were to ever be an issue.

Excited to bid!

Best,
Mike

[hcv123]

Hi guys,

I am NOT an expert in Clemente signatures. I am (self proclaimed) an expert in Clemente memorabilia. I have been buying, selling and trading Clemente memorabilia for almost 25 years. The detail that is most interesting to me is I have never seen an 8x10 of that image before. In fact, if my memory serves me the only time I have seen that image is in a 5 x 7 format from an early ('56?) team photo pack (also in the 1956 yearbook). I should have a scan of it somewhere and will try to post before auction end. That said, the photo pack photo I also have only ever seen once (I own it). I considered bidding too. It is certainly entirely possible that it is just that rare, but something is not sitting right with me about it. I applaud Ken for his contribution here and his auction policy. It might be helpful to look at the photo itself under a loop and compare it to another photo made with a similar printing process from the same era. Any background story on where it came from?

-Howard Chasser

[kengoldin]

http://catalog.scpauctions.com/lot-14950.aspx

Here is where the consignor got it from. Scp 2 years ago where is sold for 11k
It also comes with a full JSA LOA which I see is not in the written description for some reason

[mdallen22]

I know this piece was sold on 5/1/2011 through SCP Auctions but beyond that I do not know much about its origins. (http://catalog.scpauctions.com/lot-14950.aspx)

My question is still outstanding regarding the type of pen that was used to sign this photo. Without seeing the piece up-close I could only make an educated guess. What are people's thoughts? Ken any idea?

To elaborate on Howards' point of never seeing an 8x10 of this image begs the questions; are we able to date this 8x10? What type of paper is it on? Where did this photo come from?

-Mike

[kengoldin]

I have not had the pleasure of seeing it outside its slab. JSA and PSA have. From my eye, it appears to be signed in fountain pen. As with any item, if you have any doubt, I would suggest you do not bid, although as stated if the winning bidder encountered a problem of authenticity after the fact we would take it back and issue a refund. I have contacted both PSA and JSA for their records and information prior to the item being slabbed.

[71buc]

Originally Posted by hcv123

Hi guys,

I am NOT an expert in Clemente signatures. I am (self proclaimed) an expert in Clemente memorabilia. I have been buying, selling and trading Clemente memorabilia for almost 25 years. The detail that is most interesting to me is I have never seen an 8x10 of that image before. In fact, if my memory serves me the only time I have seen that image is in a 5 x 7 format from an early ('56?) team photo pack (also in the 1956 yearbook). I should have a scan of it somewhere and will try to post before auction end. That said, the photo pack photo I also have only ever seen once (I own it). I considered bidding too. It is certainly entirely possible that it is just that rare, but something is not sitting right with me about it. I applaud Ken for his contribution here and his auction policy. It might be helpful to look at the photo itself under a loop and compare it to another photo made with a similar printing process from the same era. Any background story on where it came from?

-Howard Chasser

Isn't that the same image from his 1955 Topps card?

[mdallen22]

Originally Posted by kengoldin

I have not had the pleasure of seeing it outside its slab. JSA and PSA have. From my eye, it appears to be signed in fountain pen. As with any item, if you have any doubt, I would suggest you do not bid, although as stated if the winning bidder encountered a problem of authenticity after the fact we would take it back and issue a refund. I have contacted both PSA and JSA for their records and information prior to the item being slabbed.

Ken - Any word back from JSA or PSA?

[kengoldin]

They stand behind the LOAs and the LOAs are posted on the site.
I am sorry I cannot answer your question on the photo itself. PSA. JSA, myself, and Harry Bryant (who you may not know, but who has witnessed more in person signatures then anyone on the earth as the person who for years worked with DiMaggio, Ryan, Ripken and countless others during signing sessions) do not have an issue with the autograph.
I am sorry I cannot provide you with specific information regarding the date and nature of the photograph. If you are ever even 1/10th of 1% unsure about an item, you should not bid (and you have not in this case). In the meantime, as an auction house we stand behind the items we sell and if the winner of the item decided to cut it out of the slab, have the photograph dated, and if the date was such that it could not be signed by Clemente, I would refund him and eat the price personally.

As stated previously, we have rejected TPA items before, so while our customers like them, they are not a 'bible' to us. In this case we are comfortable with the item, and will stand behind . Is there anything more you would like me to do Michael with the auction closing tonight?

[mdallen22]

For the record because I feel it is important...

I want it to be known that I was never making a claim on this piece simply asking questions, and I'm sure we all can understand the importance of due diligence.

Ken has reached out to me via e-mail and we spoke on the phone. I know many of you know Ken personally or well through this forum, and I would like to say I was delighted to hear from him and it was enjoyable talking to him regarding this piece.

Ken honesty could not do more than he already has. He has personally examined this piece, he has had his team examine this piece, he has reached out to JSA and PSA who both stand behind it all while offering a money back guarantee. This is all very honorable of him, and I don't know many in the industry that would go through all the trouble and take the time out of their day to give someone a phone call regarding a piece in such detail. I realize Ken is an active member on the forum and understands the importance of the integrity of this industry.

Best,
Mike

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by 71buc

Isn't that the same image from his 1955 Topps card?

It is the same image of Clemente used on his 1955 Topps card and the photo was likely taken during spring training in 1955 (anybody confirm from the background?). The image on his Rookie card is in color and does not include any of the background elements. The team photo pack photo I have does. Sorry I haven't posted yet - will try to soon.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by mdallen22

For the record because I feel it is important...

I want it to be known that I was never making a claim on this piece simply asking questions, and I'm sure we all can understand the importance of due diligence.

Ken has reached out to me via e-mail and we spoke on the phone. I know many of you know Ken personally or well through this forum, and I would like to say I was delighted to hear from him and it was enjoyable talking to him regarding this piece.

Ken honesty could not do more than he already has. He has personally examined this piece, he has had his team examine this piece, he has reached out to JSA and PSA who both stand behind it all while offering a money back guarantee. This is all very honorable of him, and I don't know many in the industry that would go through all the trouble and take the time out of their day to give someone a phone call regarding a piece in such detail. I realize Ken is an active member on the forum and understands the importance of the integrity of this industry.

Best,
Mike

So after all of this, did you win it/ add it to your collection?

[Sean1125]

The JSA LoA says it's a marker.

[mdallen22]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

The JSA LoA says it's a marker.

I too was wondering about the pen that was used, as my prior post show, and I saw the JSA letter make reference to a felt pen. I've did some research and read felt tipped pens were first introduced in the 1960's (not to be confused with felt tip markers) by Yukio Horie of the Tokyo Stationery Company. I've seen some people say 1962 and others say 1964. I also spoke with another dealer who has a Clemente autograph on this exact type of 8x10. So it is quite possible this 8x10 was signed with that type of pen during Clemente's lifetime. The only other debate one could make is saying the felt tip pen was manufactured after Clemente changed his style of autograph, which IMO is a poor argument because he could still sign his name however he wanted to.

@Forever Young - I was outbid