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Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

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  #1  
Old 04-12-2017, 03:34 PM
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Default Western Association Old Judges

In another thread, the scarcity of 1888 and 1889 Western Association Old Judges was discussed. The 1888 cards are quite scarce and the 1889 cards are scarcer than both National League and American Association cards, the ones that make up a majority of the 1889 issue. I thought it would be fun to ask people to post their Western Association Old Judges, if they have any. I am out now, but will post some later too. Have at it guys!
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  #2  
Old 04-12-2017, 06:09 PM
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Default Denvers

I like this Klusman because it is a triple-variation card:

Version A: "Milwaukee" caption; "MILWAUKEE" on shirt
Version B: Handwritten "Denver" caption; "MILWAUKEE" partially blocked-out on shirt but still visible
Version C (the one you're looking at): Typeset "Denvers" caption; "MILWAUKEE" fully blocked-out on shirt

I can't think of too many other triple-variation cards!

Hoffman is probably the most difficult Denver subject (although the most difficult pose is surely the recently confirmed Dave Rowe portrait).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg N172 Klusman Catching Front.jpg (70.1 KB, 776 views)
File Type: jpg N172 Hoffman Denvers Front.jpg (60.0 KB, 779 views)
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  #3  
Old 04-12-2017, 06:38 PM
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Keep on educating guys! Love the posts. I have increased my n172 holdings to a total of 6. Plus 1 n174. I want to add an n173 in the near future.
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You got any of them n series non sport and boxing in there?
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  #4  
Old 04-12-2017, 06:56 PM
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Great cards Scot. Let me include some 1889 managers and s neat 1888 Milwaukee two player card,
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  #5  
Old 04-12-2017, 06:57 PM
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Sorry for the multiple posts. I'm not sure how to do multiple photos on one post.
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  #6  
Old 04-12-2017, 06:58 PM
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For the Denver collectors
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  #7  
Old 04-13-2017, 05:01 AM
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According to baseball-reference.com, there were 10 teams in the 1888 WA:
Chicago Maroons
Davenport Onion Weeders
Des Moines Prohibitionists
Kansas City Blues
Milwaukee Brewers/Creams
Minneapolis Millers
Omaha Omahogs/Lambs
Sioux City Corn Huskers
St. Louis Whites
St. Paul Apostles

the 8 WA teams of 1889 were:
Denver Grizzlies/Mountaineers
Des Moines Prohibitionists
Milwaukee Brewers/Creams
Minneapolis Millers
Omaha Omahogs/Lambs
Sioux City Corn Huskers
St. Joseph Clay Eaters
St. Paul Apostles

My only contributions of the WA:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 260-3_Kenyon_(2490).jpg (43.3 KB, 567 views)
File Type: jpg 260-4_Kenyon_(2505).jpg (41.3 KB, 575 views)
File Type: jpg 345-2_Nicholson_(2471).jpg (43.4 KB, 564 views)
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  #8  
Old 04-13-2017, 08:36 AM
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Jay already posted this player/pose, but I thought I would add to the "overall population" of Barnes

Pretty sure I bought this one from Jay as well...
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File Type: jpg Barnes.jpg (30.7 KB, 563 views)
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  #9  
Old 04-13-2017, 10:36 AM
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Here is my contribution of Kansas City players with some WA Kansas City Blues mixed in there.

Rob M

Kansas City Ball Players.jpg
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  #10  
Old 04-13-2017, 11:24 AM
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Rob-Those are some beautiful cards. I especially like than 1888 WA Swartzel.
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  #11  
Old 04-13-2017, 01:35 PM
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Here are a few more 1888 WA cards, and also the President and Vice President 57 years ago. I think we just need Omaha and St Paul to finish the 1888s.
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File Type: jpg IMG_1483.jpg (69.3 KB, 526 views)

Last edited by oldjudge; 04-13-2017 at 01:38 PM.
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  #12  
Old 04-13-2017, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjudge View Post
Here are a few more 1888 WA cards, and also the President and Vice President 57 years ago. I think we just need Omaha and St Paul to finish the 1888s.
That's a beautiful Johnson!

Umm, wait a minute, what did I just say??

Rob M
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  #13  
Old 04-13-2017, 03:12 PM
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Thank goodness you didn't say it was a semi-erect Johnson
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  #14  
Old 04-14-2017, 11:37 PM
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The Grasshopper
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  #15  
Old 04-15-2017, 10:17 AM
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Jerry: That Maines is beautiful!
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  #16  
Old 04-15-2017, 11:28 AM
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Love the Anderson/Veach card, Jay. I don't think too many people truly grasp how great that card is. Wish I could add some scans, but I have no WA cards on my laptop and I'm not home right now to scan them
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  #17  
Old 04-15-2017, 05:07 PM
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Jay, I'm seriously considering buying you a $100 scanner
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  #18  
Old 04-15-2017, 05:29 PM
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LOL--no computer, just a cell phone.
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  #19  
Old 10-29-2017, 10:26 AM
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Here are a few Sioux City
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File Type: jpg 1509294219682.jpg (73.6 KB, 187 views)
File Type: jpg 1509294259766.jpg (73.8 KB, 187 views)
File Type: jpg 1509294296145.jpg (74.2 KB, 187 views)
File Type: jpg 1509294333001.jpg (75.6 KB, 187 views)
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  #20  
Old 04-23-2017, 04:38 PM
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Sorry for coming late to the party, but there have been a lot of distractions lately.

I'll try to post what I have periodically in some logical groupings as I unearth them from storage.

1888 Des Moines
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File Type: jpg Holliday.jpg (70.0 KB, 386 views)
File Type: jpg Shafer.jpg (71.5 KB, 387 views)
File Type: jpg Swartwood.jpg (68.2 KB, 386 views)
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  #21  
Old 04-24-2017, 10:21 AM
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Those are beauties Kevin, especially that scarcer Orator Shafer card.
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  #22  
Old 04-24-2017, 10:28 AM
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They're all not that beautiful. Wait until you see the rest!
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  #23  
Old 04-25-2017, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkkkandp View Post
They're all not that beautiful. Wait until you see the rest!
Kevin, I see what you mean - these last 4 OJs are really crappy compared to the first 3 you posted!
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  #24  
Old 04-25-2017, 06:17 PM
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I know it's not an OJ, but it is a Sioux City player (Weber) from that time period.
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  #25  
Old 04-25-2017, 05:40 AM
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Next in line...

1888 Kansas City Blues
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File Type: jpg Bradley.jpg (69.9 KB, 337 views)
File Type: jpg Gunson.jpg (71.5 KB, 335 views)
File Type: jpg Reynolds.jpg (71.4 KB, 334 views)
File Type: jpg Swartzel.jpg (68.8 KB, 334 views)
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  #26  
Old 04-25-2017, 07:25 AM
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That gunson is great
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  #27  
Old 04-25-2017, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felada View Post
That gunson is great
Thanks, David, but PSA says it's only "Good!"
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  #28  
Old 04-25-2017, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
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Next in line...

1888 Kansas City Blues
Whoa, Kevin, lot's of KC beauties. If they ever wanna come home to Kansas City, keep me in mind!

Rob M
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  #29  
Old 04-25-2017, 04:11 PM
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All beauties, but I especially like the Gunson and Reynolds cards, both with gloves on both hands. Please keep posting images!

Last edited by oldjudge; 04-25-2017 at 04:12 PM.
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  #30  
Old 05-01-2017, 11:05 AM
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A couple more from storage:

1888 Saint Louis Whites
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File Type: jpg Burch.JPG (65.2 KB, 222 views)
File Type: jpg Kenyon.JPG (58.6 KB, 223 views)
File Type: jpg McCormack.JPG (54.1 KB, 222 views)
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  #31  
Old 05-01-2017, 06:59 PM
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Great Whites' cards. Speaking of the Whites, did anyone else notice the Hines Whites N173 in REA? If I'm not mistaken that is the first Whites Old Judge cabinet I have ever seen. Unless I missed one, there are also none in the Cartophilic Society listing. It makes sense that they should be rare, as the team folded after less than two months.
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  #32  
Old 10-30-2017, 06:40 PM
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Sorry for coming late to the party, just didn't see this earlier. Unlike a lot of you others, I don't always have the nicest N172s but, I have a few. I believe these include all the Western Association players I have. Sorry if I duplicated any earlier ones already posted.

By the way, on the second to the last OJ posted, Sowders with KC, you'll notice what appears to maybe be some paper loss on the front at the bottom where the first part of the words "Cigarette" and "Goodwin" are missing. That is not the case though as there is no paper missing and somehow those letters never got included as part of the picture. I don't remember seeing that before on any other OJs. Is that something normal that has occurded with other OJs or maybe it is just a known issue with this particular card? Curious if anyone has any thoughts or input on that. Thanks.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg OJs - Western Assoc - PSA (1).jpg (77.2 KB, 114 views)
File Type: jpg OJs - Western Assoc - PSA (2).jpg (76.4 KB, 113 views)
File Type: jpg OJs - Western Assoc - SGC (1).jpg (75.1 KB, 113 views)
File Type: jpg OJs - Western Assoc - SGC (2).jpg (74.8 KB, 113 views)
File Type: jpg OJs - Western Assoc - Ungraded (1).jpg (74.5 KB, 112 views)
File Type: jpg OJs - Western Assoc - Ungraded (2).jpg (73.8 KB, 111 views)
File Type: jpg OJs - Western Assoc - Ungraded (3).jpg (75.7 KB, 112 views)
File Type: jpg OJs - Western Assoc - Ungraded (4).jpg (74.6 KB, 112 views)
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  #33  
Old 10-30-2017, 07:23 PM
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Nice cards everyone.

Hello Bob,

Your Sowders card is neat, could be explained by something/anything that would have blocked sunlight through the glass plate negative while developing the print. Could have been a drop of ink on the negative, a corner of overlapping paper, etc. I have a Stump Wiedman OJ with the left side (well beyond the border) omitted in a fashion similar to the bottom corner of your Sowders.
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  #34  
Old 05-04-2017, 05:50 PM
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Sorry for the long post. These are the remainder of my 1888s.

1888 Minneapolis Millers
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Brosnan.jpg (69.7 KB, 353 views)
File Type: jpg Graves.jpg (69.3 KB, 352 views)
File Type: jpg Howes.jpg (72.5 KB, 353 views)
File Type: jpg Parsons.jpg (67.5 KB, 358 views)
File Type: jpg Robinson.jpg (68.3 KB, 354 views)
File Type: jpg Kloff.jpg (70.4 KB, 359 views)
File Type: jpg McCullum.jpg (67.6 KB, 357 views)
File Type: jpg Patton.jpg (68.4 KB, 360 views)
File Type: jpg Rehse.jpg (72.4 KB, 356 views)
File Type: jpg Shaw.jpg (70.1 KB, 358 views)
File Type: jpg Sterling.jpg (67.4 KB, 358 views)
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  #35  
Old 05-04-2017, 06:12 PM
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Wow Kevin. All of those have amazing photos. Great group.
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  #36  
Old 05-04-2017, 07:10 PM
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Kevin-You know N173s really well. Have you ever seen a Whites cabinet before?
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Old 05-04-2017, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjudge View Post
Kevin-You know N173s really well. Have you ever seen a Whites cabinet before?
No, not until the brown mount Hines in REA.
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  #38  
Old 05-04-2017, 09:22 PM
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Nice cards Kevin!, the 1888 Minneapolis cards are a bit easier to collect than the other 1888 Western Association teams with most of the players/poses being Fa cards.

Regarding Western Association cabinets, we do know that in general the 1889 cabinets are more common than 1888 which would suggest the most difficult WA teams would be Chicago Maroons, Kansas City Blues, and St. Louis Whites (these three would not make it to 1889). Of these three teams, St. Louis Whites was the first to disband (June 20th of 1888) which likely led to extremely few cabinets being ordered. The new for 1889 teams (Sioux City, Denver, & St Joseph) may follow with the teams that played both years being more likely to surface.

I just caught your last comment on the Nicholson . . . the Nicholson I used as an Fb example might be from your collection (or Burdick, LOC, etc.). That Fa/Fb/Fc composite is from ten years ago when we were gathering lots of images for the book. I will re-create Fa vs Fb vs Fc from my collection (all Detroit)
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  #39  
Old 05-15-2017, 11:56 AM
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Can't let this thread die just yet...

1889 Sioux City Cornhuskers
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File Type: jpg Bradley.jpg (67.9 KB, 248 views)
File Type: jpg Burks.jpg (72.3 KB, 246 views)
File Type: jpg Genins.jpg (69.6 KB, 247 views)
File Type: jpg Kelly and Powell.jpg (68.5 KB, 247 views)
File Type: jpg Weber.jpg (67.9 KB, 246 views)
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  #40  
Old 05-16-2017, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlerainiers View Post
Here are a few
Not to derail this thread, but any idea what would happen to these beautiful curled OJs if they were smashed flat--in a slab, for instance? It seems like you'd crack the surface.

I imagine some of the OJs currently in slabs were curled at some point; does it take time for damage to appear, or is it okay to flatten them?

Bill
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  #41  
Old 05-16-2017, 11:51 AM
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I have one card that was curled that developed a crease down the center in the process of putting into a holder (Beckett btw, due to flattening). The other issue I've noticed is image fading even when not exposed to light. Both issues have been the exception for me, hence I keep collecting them.

Last edited by pete zouras; 05-16-2017 at 11:53 AM.
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  #42  
Old 05-19-2017, 12:04 PM
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Not sure on these, but I have seen more than one old judge type card get cracked when flattened out. Others will know more but in my experiences they seem brittle. I am sure the OJ collectors have lots of tales....

Quote:
Originally Posted by birdman42 View Post
Not to derail this thread, but any idea what would happen to these beautiful curled OJs if they were smashed flat--in a slab, for instance? It seems like you'd crack the surface.

I imagine some of the OJs currently in slabs were curled at some point; does it take time for damage to appear, or is it okay to flatten them?

Bill
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  #43  
Old 05-19-2017, 08:38 PM
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I guess I have been exceptionally lucky, but I do not recall having any N172s that were so curled that I feared what might happen if I slabbed them.

I will say, however, that if I DID have one that curled, I would probably opt to not send it for encapsulation.
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