Another Probstein LOL

[CMIZ5290]

Oh my God, here we go again. Forget the belly aching, what can be done about it? Has anyone notified Ebay from the past 50- 60 threads that have been started here over the past 2 years?? I highly doubt it... Why does this always happen every 2-3 weeks, but not a freaking thing gets done? What's the point? It's almost like being in the Twilight zone......Oh, and here comes something about Brent and PWCC.....Rick is laughing his ass off all the way to the bank....People are always responding to these threads, "well, it's good for every one to be warned, and know who the bad guys are in the hobby..." But yet, it evidently keeps on happening.... At the end of the day, not a damn thing gets done, so why the wasted energy?

[nsaddict]

And the underbidder with 248 feedbacks, also has 84% bid history with Rick.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by nsaddict

And the underbidder with 248 feedbacks, also has 84% bid history with Rick.

Just to clarify, is this yet another indictment on Rick, or a comfirmation on how stupid people can be, including Ebay?

[nsaddict]

My personal opinion, I don't think Rick spends any time trying to figure any of this stuff out. I think he could and should put more effort into keeping the auctions clean. In this particular auction it's a no brainer. The previous winner is bidding on this exact card again that he had won from Rick less than a month ago. You will get no complaint from Ebay either. I don't like it, but the best thing to combat this is to NOT bid in his auctions. Many will bitch about it but still bid with him???

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by nsaddict

My personal opinion, I don't think Rick spends any time trying to figure any of this stuff out. I think he could and should put more effort into keeping the auctions clean. In this particular auction it's a no brainer. The previous winner is bidding on this exact card again that he had won from Rick less than a month ago. You will get no complaint from Ebay either. I don't like it, but the best thing to combat this is to NOT bid in his auctions. Many will bitch about it but still bid with him???

Richard- I agree, but yet they keep bidding, and bidding, and bidding...How in the hell can Ebay allow this if there is in fact "misconduct" or wrong doing? There have been several threads on this forum pertaining bid shilling and other acts by the Seller that are not allowable, by both Ebay rules and the law in general. But yet, here we are......

[CW]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Oh my God, here we go again. Forget the belly aching, what can be done about it? Has anyone notified Ebay from the past 50- 60 threads that have been started here over the past 2 years?? I highly doubt it... Why does this always happen every 2-3 weeks, but not a freaking thing gets done? What's the point? It's almost like being in the Twilight zone......Oh, and here comes something about Brent and PWCC.....Rick is laughing his ass off all the way to the bank....People are always responding to these threads, "well, it's good for every one to be warned, and know who the bad guys are in the hobby..." But yet, it evidently keeps on happening.... At the end of the day, not a damn thing gets done, so why the wasted energy?

On one hand I can see what you're saying, in that nothing will ultimately be done by Ebay or Rick to put a stop to this.

However, one way that these types of posts could possibly help is by educating the consumer so he or she can make the choice on their own to put an end to it by not bidding on Rick's auctions, or on a broader scale, not bidding on Ebay auctions in general.

Avoiding Ebay altogether is the better solution, imo, since I put the majority of the blame for shill bidding on the shill bidders themselves and Ebay for creating an environment where it can run rampant. I don't put much of the blame, if any, for shill bidding on Probstein or PWCC, as I trust that they do not shill their own auctions.

So while the seller may not have the tools to monitor 1000s of auctions, and while Ebay could give a shit since more bids means more money to their bottom line, these threads can educate consumers to avoid blatant shill bidding.

For the record, I will still occasionally bid on an Ebay auction, as I am addicted to the hobby and it's a necessary evil at times. Still, they've lost A LOT of my business over the years.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by CW

On one hand I can see what you're saying, in that nothing will ultimately be done by Ebay or Rick to put a stop to this.

However, one way that these types of posts could possibly help is by educating the consumer so he or she can make the choice on their own to put an end to it by not bidding on Rick's auctions, or on a broader scale, not bidding on Ebay auctions in general.

Avoiding Ebay altogether is the better solution, imo, since I put the majority of the blame for shill bidding on the shill bidders themselves and Ebay for creating an environment where it can run rampant. I don't put much of the blame, if any, for shill bidding on Probstein or PWCC, as I trust that they do not shill their own auctions.

So while the seller may not have the tools to monitor 1000s of auctions, and while Ebay could give a shit since more bids means more money to their bottom line, these threads can educate consumers to avoid blatant shill bidding.

For the record, I will still occasionally bid on an Ebay auction, as I am addicted to the hobby and it's a necessary evil at times. Still, they've lost A LOT of my business over the years.

Chuck- I hear you. But again going back to my earlier post, avoiding these auctions where there is particular concern has not worked, definitely not worked. People keep coming to the trough to drink as far as these auctions go. My biggest frustration is that if nothing can in fact be done, why in the hell keep harping on it?? Why do we insist on coming back for more and more punishment??

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Chuck- I hear you. But again going back to my earlier post, avoiding these auctions where there is particular concern has not worked, definitely not worked. People keep coming to the trough to drink as far as these auctions go. My biggest frustration is that if nothing can in fact be done, why in the hell keep harping on it?? Why do we insist on coming back for more and more punishment??

Every time one of these posts about Probstein pop up you post more than most, and it's almost always complaining that people are wasting their time. This seems ironic to me.

[autograf]

Hmm....maybe it'll be sold to the underbidder on a second chance.....fishy stuff at best.....

[hangman62]

I agree..it is a waste of time...nothing gets resolved..sour grapes..all that...but if you add this simple phrase at the end of any complaint or bitch

- " IM JUST SAYIN "

....it makes it all acceptable and right

[Pythonfactory]

Aren't new people joining this forum every day? Aren't there members who visit infrequently? Is it a bad decision to educate them on what to look out for when bidding on Ebay?

I've, *gasp*, bid with Brent and watched some items from Probstein since these revelations but you can be damn sure that I've watched the bidder's history on them all, tried to find any previous sales history, and backed away at the first sign of anything fishy. If it weren't for these threads, I would have never known to look and wouldn't have walked away from some items.

To summarize, I completely disagree with you Kevin. Sure, as an individual buyer, I cannot completely change the system but pointing these things out does make a difference, even if its only a small one.

[Sean1125]

Do any single one of you people bashing Rick actually try and send him an E-mail?

He was pretty quick to act when I did.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Every time one of these posts about Probstein pop up you post more than most, and it's almost always complaining that people are wasting their time. This seems ironic to me.

Delete....not worth it..

[ullmandds]

convincing retort, Kevin?!

[jlehma13]

Almost pulled the trigger on a lot of t206's but the high bidder and eventual winner had near 20 bid retractions in 6 months. Still went for a reasonable price but I have to say, after all the chatter here, I was turned off. Perhaps I will see them again...

[markf31]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Chuck- I hear you. But again going back to my earlier post, avoiding these auctions where there is particular concern has not worked, definitely not worked. People keep coming to the trough to drink as far as these auctions go. My biggest frustration is that if nothing can in fact be done, why in the hell keep harping on it?? Why do we insist on coming back for more and more punishment??

No one is forcing you to read or reply to these threads. If you don't care for them and think they are a waste of time, then don't waste your own time in reading or replying to the threads, let those of us who believe they are worthwhile, devote our time to them.

[markf31]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Oh my God, here we go again. Forget the belly aching, what can be done about it? Has anyone notified Ebay from the past 50- 60 threads that have been started here over the past 2 years?? I highly doubt it... Why does this always happen every 2-3 weeks, but not a freaking thing gets done? What's the point? It's almost like being in the Twilight zone......Oh, and here comes something about Brent and PWCC.....Rick is laughing his ass off all the way to the bank....People are always responding to these threads, "well, it's good for every one to be warned, and know who the bad guys are in the hobby..." But yet, it evidently keeps on happening.... At the end of the day, not a damn thing gets done, so why the wasted energy?

I disagree that nothing gets done or accomplished by bringing these items and auctions up for discussion on the board.

Originally Posted by Pythonfactory

I've, *gasp*, bid with Brent and watched some items from Probstein since these revelations but you can be damn sure that I've watched the bidder's history on them all, tried to find any previous sales history, and backed away at the first sign of anything fishy. If it weren't for these threads, I would have never known to look and wouldn't have walked away from some items.

Originally Posted by deucetwins

Thanks to this forum, I no longer bid on anything from Probstein123. PWCC is getting close to me drawing the curtain on them as well. The message is getting out.

That's two people who are more aware now of situations like this and have modified their behavior as a direct result of threads like this, and I'll add myself into that group as well and I'm pretty certain the 3 of us are not the only ones.

So while threads like this might not impact the consignors or Ebay significantly and I'll even agree they don't seem to impact consignors or Ebay at all, threads like this do help foster a slightly more informed and protected group of buyers/collectors and I think that's a positive point worthy of the threads being posted.

Think of it this way. Not everyone checks in with the Better Business Bureau before doing business with a company, to research how that particular company ranks with the BBB, or to inquire about that companies complaint and customer satisfaction history. In fact, in just about every instance, I would argue a consumer doesn't know that a particular company rates poorly with the BBB until they have an unsatisfactory experience with that company and choose to file a complaint with the BBB.

So would you argue that filing complaints with the BBB is useless because you never see direct results from your complaint? Your complaint, or a million complaints, to the BBB won't shut a company down, and in many cases a company with a poor BBB history won't change its business practices because the complaints themselves don't change their bottom dollar, so whats the point? The point is the BBB allows consumers an avenue to be a little better informed IF they chose to utilize the information at their disposal and do a little research.

Its my opinion that if each of these threads posted about consignors and items effects just one buyer/collector per thread, creates just one buyer/collector who is just slightly more aware and informed, well I think that's a great thing! I'm sure if you ask that one buyers/collector if they thought the thread accomplished something they would emphatically say yes!

[calvindog]

Mark, of course, is correct. Bringing the fraud to light that repeatedly occurs in Probstein and PWCC auctions can only be a good thing -- unless you are a consigner to these auctions and you're worried about less bidding on your items. That we would have posters on this board complaining about discussions of this fraud is really mind-numbing; however, again, the motives of such naysayers are obvious.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by deucetwins

Thanks to this forum, I no longer bid on anything from Probstein123. PWCC is getting close to me drawing the curtain on them as well. The message is getting out.

+1 I am proud to say I that have not bid on any Probstein items since it was confirmed that he condones consignors shilling their own items.

Originally Posted by calvindog

That we would have posters on this board complaining about discussions of this fraud is really mind-numbing...

+1 to this as well.

[ullmandds]

I also have not bid on any Probstein...or PWCC auctions since things have come to light...and if I were to I would scrutinize bidding history with a fine tooth comb.

To say bringing these issues up is not doing anything...is a waste of time...is just plain ignorant.

Seems to me the ones who keep standing up for the accused...are most likely those who have been benefitting from such activities?

[Sean1125]

People can assume anything they want, it doesn't mean it is true.

The consigners who don't mess with auctions far exceed those who do.

Why individuals let one, two, even ten auctions out of twenty to thirty thousand in a month affect what they think of Rick is beyond me. The bids are likely from the same few toxic individuals and I would think if pointed out they will either be spoken to and given a warning or banned all together. It didn't seem anyone actually pointed this one out until I had e-mailed Rick.

I would challenge any member here to find a card of mine that they think has an unnatural bidding history, you won't - every card I've ever auctioned I am comfortable with the risk of auction. I've had major "scores" where cards shatter VCP by 60%, 100% - I've had major losses where I've paid $1800 for something and net $1000... Sometimes you win sometimes you lose.

[Gradedcardman]

I read about the complaints and agree. I don't see how one person states that others should call eBay but yet they won't. Strange but that's the way it goes.

I consigned to PWCC and did not have any "help" and lost money in the long run. I simply wouldn't shill them up hoping one day maybe I would be able to buy something at a favorable price as well. My mistake.