collecting help again please

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Posted By: Jim

So far this group seems to be one of the sharpest on the web when it comes to baseball. I have some more request. Are there no baseball "cards" of pitcher Jim Shaw (1913-21 WASH NL)?

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Jim,

Here's where Roscoe played, and when....

1896 Southern Association (B) Columbus Babies/River Snipes
1896 Southern Association (B) Atlanta Crackers
1898 Interstate League (B) Mansfield Haymakers
1899 Interstate League (B) Mansfield Haymakers
1900 American League (A) Detroit Tigers
1901 American League (MLB) Detroit Tigers
1902 American League (MLB)Detroit Tigers
1902 National League (MLB) New York Giants
1903 National League (MLB) New York Giants
1904 National League (MLB) Pittsburgh Pirates
1905 Pacific Coast League (A) San Francisco Seals
1905 Pacific Coast League (A) Seattle Siwashes
1906 Western League (A)Des Moines Champs
1907 Western League (A)Des Moines Champs
1908 California League (Independent) Fresno Tigers
1908 California League (Independent) Oakland Commuters
1909 California League (Independent)San Jose Prune Pickers
1909 Western League (A)Des Moines Boosters

Maybe there's a photo of him in one of the Spalding Guides or Records. What you'd need is a guide from when he was in the majors, and see if he appears in a team composite... Or maybe contact a library or historical society in Des Moines, since he was there at a time of peak baseball interest.

Frank W.

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Posted By: Jim

Thanks for the above info, if nothing surfaces here I will contact them. I did look into the Spaldings but could not find or was too small of a pic to locate a "Miller" on team photo's...

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Jim, another idea.

That 1905 San Francisco team finished 2nd that year, a good team. It is likely that there was a fair amount of newspaper coverage. You might try to befriend someone at a library in San Francisco.... get on the phone, tell them what you want and that it might be in a 1905 paper, get their name and mail them some cash and a SASE, tell them you're patient, that they can search at their convenience...

I've had good luck with that.

FW.

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Posted By: Jim

help

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Well do you want help, or do you just want us to do it for you with an Easy Button?

Did you Google libraries in SF? Or historical societies?? Did you call anyone out there?

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Posted By: Max Weder

There is no photo of Roscoe Miller listed in the SABR Encyclopedia database (members only, sabr is at http://www.sabr.org ). Given the relatively few players who don't have photos, this means a photo of Roscoe is very difficult to locate.

Max

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Posted By: Jim

Well I thought it better to wait until Monday and call when offices are more apt to be open.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Saturdays are good days at libraries and historical societies.

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Posted By: Jim

Couldn't get to it Sat... There is an E107 of Mr Miller and thought that maybe someone on this site may have one.

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Posted By: Jim VB

I believe the E107 of Miller actually pictures George Mullin, not Miller.

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Posted By: Jim

The checklist for E107's list "Miller P Det" which would fit the time frame, and whether or not it's a pic of Roscoe I would not know. Never seen a E107, let alone that one.

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Posted By: Jim VB

I'm aware of how it is checklisted, but it is NOT Roscoe Miller. It IS George Mullin.

You can look it up on VCP or on the Old Cardboard site.

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Posted By: Max Weder

My apologies, as I can't apparently read the SABR database. It lists pictures as follows (another good reason to join SABR!

TypeColorCaptionUniformLocationSourceDatePage
B&WPiratesBrace Photo
Upper body poseB&WSDN - 001439 (misidentified as J. Warner)New York NLChicago Historical Societyhttp://memory.loc.gov/ammem/ndlpcoop/ichihtml/cdnhome.html2004
Head shotB&WRoscoe MillerCan't ID (capless)BASEBALL MEMORIES 1900-1909, Marc Okkonen1992179

Here's the photo, but I'm not sure why they think it's Miller

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Posted By: Jim

wow thanks for the info, another card I couldn't afford anyway and if it's not Mr. Miller's photo... so this makes the search even more enticing. still looking though...

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Posted By: Jim

While typing in the last mesg. the above shows up.. though not 100% if it's around 1902-3 era... how cool is that... THANK YOU Any uniform experts out there?

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Posted By: Mark L

The uni looks right for 1902 Giants home.

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Posted By: bmarlowe

The above photo is for sure Roscoe Miller - taken in 1903 at West Side Grounds Chicago. I was involved in his SABR photo listing. It was confirmed by pretty decent Spalding guide head shots in the 1904 and 1905 guides and a 1901 Detroit Team photo.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Would not the 1902 Giants home jersey have Giants or NY Giants on it??? The road jersey would have had New York on it, even then?

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Posted By: bmarlowe

Frank - as I said it was taken in Chicago, though the home and road jerseys said "NEW YORK". See 1903 below:

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Posted By: Mark Lutz

The uniform database from the Hall of Fame

http://exhibits.baseballhalloffame.org/dressed_to_the_nines/uniforms.asp?league=NL&city=New+York&lowYear=1900& highYear=1912&sort=year&increment=9

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Posted By: Jim

I'm convinced. Thanks for all the help. got another player I can't find a photo of... Scott Perry 1915 SLB, 1916 CHC, 1917 CIN, 1919-21 PHA. Beckett list an E220 but the pic is of Ed Rommell.

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Posted By: bmarlowe

Well - I found 2 of Scott Perry:



A really nice reproduction of the head shot can be found on page 29 of "Reds in Black and White" by Mark Stang - highly recommended

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Thanks.. should have gotten out my uniform book by Mr. Okkonen.

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Posted By: Jerry Spillman

Which card is in error?

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Posted By: Mike

I'd say the W600 - the Rose Co looks a lot like the T207:

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Posted By: bmarlowe

The Sporting Life cabinet is Mullin.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Both picture Mullin, but the W600 is an error.

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Posted By: Jerry Spillman

Thanks for the scans. SL really messed up on that cabinet card.

Is there a baseball card that actually depicts Roscoe Miller?

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Posted By: Jim

You all are soo good here, thanks how about another one? Henry Schmidt who played only one year 1903 for Brookln NL.

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Posted By: Mark

These aren't great, but they are him.

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Posted By: Jerry Spillman

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Posted By: Jim VB

Are Harry and Henry the same guy?

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Posted By: Jerry Spillman

Same guy. Played for Brooklyn in 1903.

Name should read Henry M. Schmidt

SL messed up on getting the right names on many of their cabinet cards.

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Posted By: Mark

In a 1903 Brooklyn team photo he is front row right:

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?cdn:1:./temp/~ammem_VJTp::

If you want it in high res - you can order a scan from the Chicago History Museum - I don't know what they are charging now, but it may not be cheap.

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Posted By: Jim

YOU FOLKS RULE!!!!! THANK YOU VERY MUCH

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Posted By: Jim

Need to know if there are any baseball "cards" of these pitchers-Jim Shaw (James Aloysius Shaw)and Doc Ayers (Yancy Wyatt Ayers). There pitching dates are at the top of this page. Also looking for photos of these two gentlemen also. Thanks UPDATE The only question remaining is wether or not there is a "baseball card" of Jim Shaw. thanks again for all the info

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Posted By: Mark

See below:

http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.pnp/hec.06603
http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.pnp/hec.06604

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Posted By: Jim

Well I tried the above mentioned sites but could not find a photo of either Mr Ayers or Mr Shaw. Heck of a baseball card catalog but since I can't locate a "baseball card" either.... Still looking....

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Posted By: Mark

What do you see? - the links work fine for me.

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Posted By: Vincent

.
Perhaps one of the other Net54 members would post an image from the appropriate Reach guide, of either the 1914 or 1915 Washington Senators team page. Doc Ayers is pictured in both.


The quality of my George Burke image isn't very good, but here is Yancy Doc Ayers in a Detroit uniform:

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Posted By: Mark

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Posted By: Tom Hufford

I knew Doc Ayers personally. When I was a kid, he always seemed to be in the barbershop on Saturday afternoon, when I would go for a haircut. Talking about pitching with Walter Johnson.

He was on two "cards" that I know of. The first was in the W516-1 strip card set, but you wouldn't know it from the checklist. The Walter Johnson card actually pictures Ayers. I have a copy of the same photo, in much clearer detail, from a Washington Post article about Ayers.

He also appeared in the PB5-2 Mrs. Sherlock's Bread pin set of Toledo players, as "Doc Ayers."

His first name shows up in many references as "Yancy" but it was really "Yancey." I'm travelling, and can't post examples of the card or pin, but I do happen to have a photo of his grave site on my computer. I'll try to post it.

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Posted By: Jim

You folks here are fantastic, thank you for not only the photo's but the info and links also.