NY Times article on cards as an investment

[Snapolit1]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/23/y...nvestment.html

[Peter_Spaeth]

Here is Brent admitting there was attempted market manipulation in 2016. Where are you deniers who ridiculed me and others? Mocking me about the "buying group," etc.

"He said a small group of collectors with about $20 million among them ran up prices in 2016, but the broader collecting market did not follow. “They put all their money into one card and not others,” he said. “They created outliers they couldn’t maintain. The market has had to reassess itself.”"

[Snapolit1]

See, e.g., The 1963 Rookie Stars insanity.

[Bicem]

Wow, great highlights of the Brady Hill collection!

[Bradyhill]

Hi Guys...I know I don't post much here and when the NY Times asked to interview me, I really thought about it hard. To put your collection in front of people sounds exciting on one hand, but on the other I am private person with regards to show and tell. I hope that I did an acceptable job of being a real and positive force for our hobby as that was really my goal. I just wanted to shed some positive light on why I do it. I am also lucky my wife supports my craziness also. I know there will always be some guys that are negative about card collecting, but some of my best buddies are my card nerd friends (you know who you are). Thanks for reading!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Every guy on this board loves cards. Nobody is negative about card collecting. Yes, some of us lament when we see some of the uglier aspects of the business -- shill bidding, card doctoring, price manipulation, other forms of fraud -- but that should not be conflated with negativity about card collecting.

[hcv123]

I though it was an awesome article - thanks for sharing your collection.

[mechanicalman]

The only downside is they didn’t show more pictures. Love looking at cards like that. Thanks for sharing, Brady.

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by Bradyhill

Hi Guys...I know I don't post much here and when the NY Times asked to interview me, I really thought about it hard. To put your collection in front of people sounds exciting on one hand, but on the other I am private person with regards to show and tell. I hope that I did an acceptable job of being a real and positive force for our hobby as that was really my goal. I just wanted to shed some positive light on why I do it. I am also lucky my wife supports my craziness also. I know there will always be some guys that are negative about card collecting, but some of my best buddies are my card nerd friends (you know who you are). Thanks for reading!

Very cool! I would love to see that Ruth rookie.

I totally get it. It’s like you want everyone to see the greatness of the hobby but at the same time the value of the cards might draw the wrong attention. I remember when Allen Iverson had those giant diamonds in his ears and someone ask what they were worth. He got upset but at the same time it doesn’t take a genius to know that they cost more then what most people make in a year.


And peter it does seem that Brent says a lot about what happened a few years back.

[cardcountry]

I love the article Brady. Thanks for doing it! I think it definitely puts a great light on the hobby, and hopefully it will inspire more people to get involved. Great job!!!

Jeff

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Great article! Brady congrats on what you've accomplished. Like Kimbrel's fastball, just down right nasty collection! And anytime you get mentioned alongside Kendrick's stuff you're right up there with the best.

P.S. Anyone want to buy a Rose RC purchased at the height of the purchasing cabal? doh!

[Rhotchkiss]

It was a great article, particularly because i think it did a real good job of promoting cards as an investment, not just a hobby, to the lay-investor/person I know, I know, many on this board do not like investors, or collector-investors. But I am the latter and I am in this for fun as well as wealth accumulation and appreciation. And any article that legitimizes this "hobby" as an investment to the world at large, is a good article IMO. Well done Brady.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Bradyhill

Hi Guys...I know I don't post much here and when the NY Times asked to interview me, I really thought about it hard. To put your collection in front of people sounds exciting on one hand, but on the other I am private person with regards to show and tell. I hope that I did an acceptable job of being a real and positive force for our hobby as that was really my goal. I just wanted to shed some positive light on why I do it. I am also lucky my wife supports my craziness also. I know there will always be some guys that are negative about card collecting, but some of my best buddies are my card nerd friends (you know who you are). Thanks for reading!

Brady, Truly impressive collection! You obviously have great taste and one can tell the love you have for the cards, thanks for being a positive member of our group that loves old cardboard! Feel free to post more, we need more people like you around here!
-Rhett

[NYYFan63]

Originally Posted by Bradyhill

Hi Guys...I know I don't post much here and when the NY Times asked to interview me, I really thought about it hard. To put your collection in front of people sounds exciting on one hand, but on the other I am private person with regards to show and tell. I hope that I did an acceptable job of being a real and positive force for our hobby as that was really my goal. I just wanted to shed some positive light on why I do it. I am also lucky my wife supports my craziness also. I know there will always be some guys that are negative about card collecting, but some of my best buddies are my card nerd friends (you know who you are). Thanks for reading!

Thank you for sharing your story Brady.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ullmandds]

I really enjoyed this article. I loved that you were holding that Jackson and cobb and the mantle was sitting on the table! Also interesting how are you mentioned going to the safety deposit box and being surprised...had you left the hobby for a period of time? I remember occasionally pulling out my collection all through college showing them off but I did not pay much attention to values but then again the Internet was not really born.

I would love to see more of your obscure cards !

[Bradyhill]

Ok... Here are a few of my favorite Cobb backs!

Brady

[ullmandds]

oooooh ya!!!!!!!! a few of my faves!

[BruceinGa]

Brady, loved the article!!

[Thromdog]

Originally Posted by Bradyhill

Ok... Here are a few of my favorite Cobb backs!

Brady

EPDG. Want. Bad.

Brady, that is such a fun group of cards. Congrats on great taste and the article!

[kailes2872]

While I am a collector only and hated what Beckett monthly did in the late 80’s early 90’s as every card was looked at for its dollar figure and not its aesthetic and intrinsic value, I enjoyed and appreciated the article.

I especially appreciate it because there has been more than normal push back about the obsession and the collection. I forwarded her the article and said that I was only thinking of the family as part of my portfolio diversification and I had the 54 Aaron card that was up 890%. I then invited her to look at our portfolio and show me the equity up 890%. Hopefully, her frustration will lower and I can begin participating again at a higher rate. She did say that it was a BS comparison in her mind because I would sell the equities in a heartbeat but she knows that she will have to pull the cards from my cold dead hands.

[Bicem]

Cobbmania! Great grouping Brady.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Bradyhill

Ok... Here are a few of my favorite Cobb backs!

Brady

Very nice Cobby's and well done article. It's always good to see something positive in the hobby.

[botn]

Gee it is a good thing Brady shared pics of his collection for the article otherwise people might have been disgusted by Brent's admission of price manipulation, which he denied when he was called out for his participation.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by kailes2872

She did say that it was a BS comparison in her mind because I would sell the equities in a heartbeat but she knows that she will have to pull the cards from my cold dead hands.

She ain't no fool

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Bradyhill

Ok... Here are a few of my favorite Cobb backs!

Brady

Oh.... I was an underbidder on so many of these.... Brady has a 100% beast of a collection, especially t206. Impeccable taste and a great eye. A very worthy advocate for the industry. Just don’t go head to head in an auction (you’ll get a headache!!).

[BearBailey]

Very cool. Congrats! Always great to see some positive publicity for our hobby.

[rjackson44]

Nice positive article😀

[Snapolit1]

Anyone have any guesses who the really rich guys were who were manipulating the market as Brent denied, I mean admits?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Anyone have any guesses who the really rich guys were who were manipulating the market as Brent denied, I mean admits?

I wouldn't name them publicly, but yes.

[53Browns]

Fantastic article Brady! Also, if you are interested in some creative philanthropy, I really, really, really like that Aaron rookie....

[donniebaseball]

Well done! The NYT couldn't have picked a better ambassador for the hobby. Anyone who knows you knows that nerding out is the reason why you collect. Thanks for sharing your collection and insights.

[MVSNYC]

Cool article, well done, Brady!

[Bigshot69]

I wonder what the top performer is in the PWCC 500? My guess would be the 57’ Unitas RC in PSA 9, if it is even included. It’s up around 2000% since 2011. Granted there is only a handful of them out there.

[Peter_Spaeth]

As I recall PSA had one of those market indices a while back, not sure they are still tracking it.

[KingFisk]

Originally Posted by Bradyhill

Hi Guys...I know I don't post much here and when the NY Times asked to interview me, I really thought about it hard. To put your collection in front of people sounds exciting on one hand, but on the other I am private person with regards to show and tell. I hope that I did an acceptable job of being a real and positive force for our hobby as that was really my goal. I just wanted to shed some positive light on why I do it. I am also lucky my wife supports my craziness also. I know there will always be some guys that are negative about card collecting, but some of my best buddies are my card nerd friends (you know who you are). Thanks for reading!

Beautiful collection, Brady. Thanks for sharing and telling stories. And by all means, please post more often!

[glchen]

That was a very nice article, and great collection, Brady!

However, since they were talking about baseball cards as investments, I wish the NY Times would have added that you really can't compare cards to stocks as investments because selling them can be entirely different. That is, you can sell a million dollars worth of stocks in one transaction, and only be charged a $5 flat fee from your online broker. However, fees for selling cards are often much higher from 8-15% of the sale price at an ebay consignment shop like PWCC to as high as 40% (seller fees + buyers premium) at large auction houses unless you negotiate a special deal, but even then there's no way it'll be anywhere close to a $5 flat fee like in stocks. Therefore, if the value of your collection has risen by 20%, you might think that you are doing well. However, when you actually try to sell your collection, you may only break even or even lose money depending on the fee structure.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by glchen

That was a very nice article, and great collection, Brady!

However, since they were talking about baseball cards as investments, I wish the NY Times would have added that you really can't compare cards to stocks as investments because selling them can be entirely different. That is, you can sell a million dollars worth of stocks in one transaction, and only be charged a $5 flat fee from your online broker. However, fees for selling cards are often much higher from 8-15% of the sale price at an ebay consignment shop like PWCC to as high as 40% (seller fees + buyers premium) at large auction houses unless you negotiate a special deal, but even then there's no way it'll be anywhere close to a $5 flat fee like in stocks. Therefore, if the value of your collection has risen by 20%, you might think that you are doing well. However, when you actually try to sell your collection, you may only break even or even lose money depending on the fee structure.

Well said! +1 and just like a stock, it’s never a realized gain/loss until you sell. Until then it’s all a natural high or low. Never let emotions dictate your investment strategies.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yep. As anyone who has quickly changed his mind on a recent purchase knows, the transaction costs will kill you. Certainly part of the equation.

[Snapolit1]

What I have found in the short term is that I take a loss on most items I decide to sell except for real high end stuff.

I may have been willing to pay $700 for it two years ago, but that's no guarantee that someone's going to agree to pay more than $700 for it this year.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Another difference: unless you're Warren Buffet, people buying publicly traded stocks face a concrete market price. Even in the same grade, though, a given vintage card at a given time is going to sell within a fairly wide range depending on who the seller is, how price sensitive the buyer is, centering and other characteristics of the card, negotiating skill in a private sale context, etc. Maybe 2017 PSA 10 Aaron Judge Topps cards are pretty much commoditized, but earlier stuff isn't and I don't think ever will be.

[dzolot]

Does anyone know if the raw pricing data or at least the list of cards included in the index is publicly available to view? Without that it’s hard to really make heads or tails of the index. Thanks!

[The Nasty Nati]

I would love to see the Top 500 list of cards.

[BeanTown]

Great article and thanks for posting.

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Another difference: unless you're Warren Buffet, people buying publicly traded stocks face a concrete market price. Even in the same grade, though, a given vintage card at a given time is going to sell within a fairly wide range depending on who the seller is, how price sensitive the buyer is, centering and other characteristics of the card, negotiating skill in a private sale context, etc. Maybe 2017 PSA 10 Aaron Judge Topps cards are pretty much commoditized, but earlier stuff isn't and I don't think ever will be.

Well said. No matter how many times I encounter guys trying to force an apples-to-apples likening between stocks and cards, the above point you make there always comes to mind.

[Big Ben]

This article was a fun read and I salute Brady for the collection he has amassed. However, when I read an article that details the price appreciation of any type of investment or commodity, the contrarian in me wants to go in the opposite direction.