Icon Authentics

[SetBuilder]

So what do you need to become an autograph authenticator? A Ph.D. in a science field? A super high IQ? I'd love to know, so I can become one too, just like you guys.

[SullyV]

This is the item in which I found the coa from them. The seller doesn't do a good job of clearly showing it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HANK-AARON-...gAAOSw0fhXiTb8

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

So what do you need to become an autograph authenticator? A Ph.D. in a science field? A super high IQ? I'd love to know, so I can become one too, just like you guys.

I'm reading this as you are trying to be snarky to Richard?? Are YOU the authenticator for Icon?

[SetBuilder]

No, I have no idea who is behind that site, but no one else here does either.

I just found it funny that they're throwing mud on someone they don't know, in a non-scientific field that has zero educational requirements and/or barriers to entry.

[Td8237]

I trust Richard and Jim Stinson above anyone else. If they would have an issue with an autograph, I would stay away.

[frankbmd]

Authentic “Hal Aaron”

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

No, I have no idea who is behind that site, but no one else here does either.

I just found it funny that they're throwing mud on someone they don't know, in a non-scientific field that has zero educational requirements and/or barriers to entry.

Perhaps it's because they've seen so many "authenticators" pop up and fade away that they are a bit jaded. Perhaps they're saying if you have no history, claim as your exemplar file a company that is known as a sham, and you aren't willing to put any name whatsoever with your company, you deserve some mud.

But perhaps these experts here are wrong. I suggest an experiment: you send something to these guys and report back your experience.

[SetBuilder]

Perhaps it's because they've seen so many "authenticators" pop up and fade away that they are a bit jaded.

None of the major authenticators are required to train as Certified Document Examiners (CDEs), who at least try to be scientific. That's why authenticators keep popping up.

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

But perhaps these experts here are wrong. I suggest an experiment: you send something to these guys and report back your experience.

I would never send them anything. Because I wouldn't collect stuff I can't authenticate myself, and I don't know why anyone would. I especially wouldn't pay to have them look at anything older than 1950, since there is no way they can scientifically examine the item for the amount of money they charge to authenticate it.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

None of the major authenticators are required to train as Certified Document Examiners (CDEs), who at least try to be scientific. That's why authenticators keep popping up.



I would never send them anything. Because I wouldn't collect stuff I can't authenticate myself, and I don't know why anyone would. I especially wouldn't pay to have them look at anything older than 1950, since there is no way they can scientifically examine the item for the amount of money they charge to authenticate it.

Can you name one CDE who examines autographs that you think is doing a good scientific job??

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Can you name one CDE who examines autographs that you think is doing a good scientific job??

Excellent question.

I don't know one Forensic Document Examiner (FDE) or Forensic Authenticator that is actually knowledgeable about sports autographs.

The ones that I am aware of, are either complicit or incompetent.

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Can you name one CDE who examines autographs that you think is doing a good scientific job??

My point is that CDE's are too busy working on criminal cases to bother with autographs. It's considered taboo in their field to do autograph authentication and it's career suicide. This is from an article I read about them, I forget the link.

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

None of the major authenticators are required to train as Certified Document Examiners (CDEs), who at least try to be scientific. That's why authenticators keep popping up.



I would never send them anything. Because I wouldn't collect stuff I can't authenticate myself, and I don't know why anyone would. I especially wouldn't pay to have them look at anything older than 1950, since there is no way they can scientifically examine the item for the amount of money they charge to authenticate it.

Honest question....Looking at that site, would you trust those people with your memorabilia? I don't care if you would send something or not, just look at the site and ask yourself if you think that it is a reputable source.

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

Honest question....Looking at that site, would you trust those people with your memorabilia? I don't care if you would send something or not, just look at the site and ask yourself if you think that it is a reputable source.

It's too boilerplate, so probably no. Not enough biographical info.

If they advertised a very narrow specialization? Maybe.

If I met them at a trade show? Maybe.

There is a duopoly in authentication at the moment so it's tough to go anywhere else, especially since re-sale value is tied to the reputation of the COA.

Still doesn't change the fact that the person behind that site could have good intentions and actually be a very talented grader. It's just tough to start out in an industry controlled by two firms, where you're slandered viciously by other authenticators at the beginning.

[thetruthisoutthere]

[QUOTE=SetBuilder;1785121]None of the major authenticators are required to train as Certified Document Examiners (CDEs), who at least try to be scientific. That's why authenticators keep popping up.





What is scientific about opining autographs?

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

What is scientific about opining autographs?

With enough known good and bad exemplars out there, I'm sure that a graduate student/staff at a university could come up with a machine learning algorithm that could be as good, if not better, than any human at rendering a good/bad opinion.

Just look at what we can do with fingerprinting (on your iphone), facial recognition, retina detection, etc. And that software is in use today.

[SetBuilder]

[QUOTE=thetruthisoutthere;1785844]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

None of the major authenticators are required to train as Certified Document Examiners (CDEs), who at least try to be scientific. That's why authenticators keep popping up.

What is scientific about opining autographs?

For modern autographs? Not a lot. It's more art than science.

For the old autographs? A lot. For instance, all pre-1935 autographs penned in blue ink could be tested for the presence of Phthalocyanine blue pigment, which didn't exist before 1935.

Just one example.

[saltbox68]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

No, I have no idea who is behind that site, but no one else here does either.

I just found it funny that they're throwing mud on someone they don't know, in a non-scientific field that has zero educational requirements and/or barriers to entry.

Manny, I think that the point is, if you're going to advertise yourself as an authenticator, it's best to build a reputation ahead of time, let the people who are respected in the hobby know who you are, and not issue COA's into the atmosphere. While it doesn't take a Ph.D. in science, it does take both experience and the confidence of those who are in the hobby day-by-day. That's my opinion, anyway.
Best wishes,
Bill

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

No, I have no idea who is behind that site, but no one else here does either.

I just found it funny that they're throwing mud on someone they don't know, in a non-scientific field that has zero educational requirements and/or barriers to entry.

Very true. We have no idea who is behind that site.
And why is that?
Because whoever is behind the site will not tell us his name and uses a PO Box.
I think that criticism is warranted here.
I did not impugn them personally, I just stated facts.

[bbcard1]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

So what do you need to become an autograph authenticator? A Ph.D. in a science field? A super high IQ? I'd love to know, so I can become one too, just like you guys.

Probably about the same qualifications as a grader.