Ethics question

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Posted By: runscott

Let's say you sell a card on ebay, clearly described as "trimmed". Then the guy who buys it puts it back on ebay with no mention of the trimming, but offering a very fair return policy. Since the seller is knowingly selling trimmed cards, I don't want to buy one from him and keep it, not being sure if it's trimmed and trusting the guy because he was a friend and a reputable collector. I'm not going to drop a name here, but hopefully he made a mistake and will amend his ebay description.

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Posted By: ty_cobb

If I was Dear Abby I'd say forgive and forget.
But being bad ol' Ty, I'd say if the friendship
is big enough, he'll understand your concerns
regarding his auctions. BTW this approach has
never worked for me in real life, ethics are
no match for stubborn 'friends' who do
things the way they see it and thats it.
Thats the nature of the beast.

I've gone through the same thing. I bought
a card with defects out of a lot a Texas dealer
split up, advertised it as such when I sold it,
it was flipped on ebay several times after with
'mucho grumbling' about it's undisclosed condition.
Finally the dog-eared card found a loving home, but
most were content to get rid of the dog that peed
on the rug because its easier to blame someone else
than clean up the mess.

Now here's another ethics question. A seller bought
some T206's from me (I'm in Canada). He has a card
I want but states clearly he does not ship to Canada.
Should I inform him I am no longer selling to US bidders
who do not ship internationally? I would really like
to arrange alternate shipping through a US collecting
acquaintance (c/o of a US address), I'm only interested
in collecting cards and could really care less about
how it is so difficult to mail said card across some
FRIGGIN line on a map. (My family lived in Michigan
in the early 1900s anyways so don't give
me the 'durned furriners' routine).

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Posted By: runscott

there is nothing personal about it. I'm simply questioning selling ethics.

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Posted By: Dan Mathewson

...so here are two more cents.

Card trimming seriously (if not completely) devalues a card. It is altered, no longer in its original condition. To leave that very critical information off is not acceptable, especially since trimming is not easily noticeable in a scan on eBay.

The only thing that would make it worse would be to not only leave the info off, but to try and actually hide it by putting it into a PRO holder (or something of that nature) to try and make it look authentic and unaltered.

Either situation is not cool. Most collectors would, at most, pay a tiny fraction of market value for a card that has been trimmed.

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Posted By: Ben

There was a large group of trimmed e98's (including a Matty if my memory serves me) that sold on ebay a few weeks ago for prices well into the hundreds...

Still, this doesn't negate the fact that any sort of trimming info. must be disclosed in an ebay listing.

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Posted By: jay behrens

There was a time when a trimmed card was thought worthless, but now days, a nice trim job that does not eliminate a border, or even makes them look all the same size, can command a nice price, even when the trim job is noted. Many collectors today seem to prefer having a nice looking trimmed card rather than a lesser grade, unaltered card for their collection. Basically, they I think they want them so they can try and impress friends, relative adn business associates that don't know any better.

Jay

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Posted By: Albie O'Hanian

I guess a lot depends on if everybody is 100% certain a card is trimmed. I recently sold a Tatoo Orbit card that I bought from Alan Hager many years ago (#1 indication it was trimmed) and than sent to PSA and they said it was trimmed. I advertised it as trimmed and sold it for $9.99. I suppose the buyer could now list it on ebay much as your buyer did or send it to PRO and get it graded. In my opinion after using what resources I had the card is trimmed. If I see the card again advertised as not trimmed I would be upset and never deal with the person again, but what else can you do?

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Posted By: runscott

The card IS TRIMMED. It was sold to me as trimmed, it obviously IS TRIMMED, and I sold it AS TRIMMED. The description indicates wear but nothing about trimming. This is not one that's a matter of judgement as far as the actual condition of the card - IT IS TRIMMED.

The last time I had this happen was when I sold an e95 Cobb that had a tear across the back that could be pressed down so that it wouldn't show in the scan. But if you took the card out of the holder the paper would quickly part. Anyway, the guy I sold it to put it up on ebay and did not mention the back damage. When I confronted him about it he said I was just jealous that he was a better marketer than me!

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Posted By: runscott

even little Roy Huff

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Posted By: leon

I know the situation. I feel that after you told him, Scott, he should put an amendment to his auction. I will email him too, see his response, and then probably "out" him if he does nothing. What he is doing is not right (if he knows he is selling trimmed cards and not labeling them as such). If I ever did something like this, and someone alerted me to it, then I would expect the same consequences... I will make sure that it's not an honest mistake first though.....best regards all

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Posted By: runscott

Then you get into the "you're just jealous...mind your own business", etc., and I don't feel like dealing with that. The seller reads the board, so he can do whatever he wants about it. Of course, now I am quite curious about the other card he has for sell - trimmed, bleached? Would he say if it was?

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Posted By: petecld

There is a huge difference between hype and fraud.

NOT mentioning any trimming or damage that can't be seen in a scan isn't "marketing", it's fraudulent.

If I were you I would "remind" the guy the card was trimmed when he bought it and should be sold that way - and don't settle for that, "What if I say, "it's just short" routine.

At least you now know his true colors.