the list (of criminals) is revealed

[conor912]

Originally Posted by wolf441

+1. Isn't that simply called "bidding"?

I think shilling other peoples' auctions happens more than you think, though it is hidden under the guise of "Protecting one's investment".

Say you pay $5k for a card today, then next week another one in the same grade comes up for auction. Nearing the end of the auction it looks like it's going to sell for $3500, so you bid it up with no intention of winning it to give the illusion of it maintaining the market value that you set for it with your $5k purchase.

[Bicem]

Dave and Steve Forman sure do appear a lot as both consignors and shill bidders.

Jeff Pr|zner

[ullmandds]

i see peter S was shilled for a substantial sum on the list. I kinda remember him being reluctant to write a letter to the judge?

[bn2cardz]

I saved a shareable version to my google drive. It should be accessible through the following link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3S...ew?usp=sharing

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I saved a shareable version to my google drive. It should be accessible through the following link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3S...ew?usp=sharing

Nicely done and thank you. That was the simplest and best solution to share the document.

[Econteachert205]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I saved a shareable version to my google drive. It should be accessible through the following link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3S...ew?usp=sharing

this works great, was very interesting... anyone else remember all of TJ Schwartz's holier than thou articles about the hobby? lol

[bobbyw8469]

Sickening.....but not surprising. Thank you for sharing the list. Some very disgusting stuff.

[Buythatcard]

I think we should start creating our list.

If the shiller or consignor is with a current AH, then they will be part of this list.

[T206Collector]

Here's an interesting one:

http://legendaryauctions.com/LotDeta...entoryid=70892

Apparently this was the only Lionel Carter auction that was shilled. I very much doubt that Carter himself was involved in the shilling - I doubt this would have been his one auction to choose to shill. I would guess, instead, that Mastro had knowledge of the highest bid and then did this in order to increase the premium.

Damn, that is a L-O-N-G list!

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

anyone else remember all of TJ Schwartz's holier than thou articles about the hobby? lol

Yup, used to be the first thing I turned to in Tuff Stuff

[iwantitiwinit]

Totally disgusting.

[scotgreb]

I noticed a couple from PSA's "Board of Experts" in the shill bidder column. One in particular is seen many times.

[jmb]

Sure am glad I haven't bid in any auctions. I think I will appreciate a good ebay Buy It Now auction more from now on.

[glchen]

Seriously, out of control. I was probably naïve, but there were a lot more than I expected there. I don't even know how this is fixed in any auctions today even if the auction house does not own the auction software. Many of the shillers seemed to be friends and relatives of the consignor. So even with today's auctions, they would just have different accounts and would not be caught. Basically, the auction house (or ebay) is not directly involved in the shilling activities. However, they turn a blind eye to monitoring it.

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I saved a shareable version to my google drive. It should be accessible through the following link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3S...ew?usp=sharing

Andy,

A BIG Thank YOU!

[MULLINS5]

Is there a way to find what was auctioned off? I am particularly interested in April 2007 Lot # 1512. Thank you in advance.

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by MULLINS5

Is there a way to find what was auctioned off? I am particularly interested in April 2007 Lot # 1512. Thank you in advance.

That was Ted Williams' game used bat for home run #400.

Tom C

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by MULLINS5

Is there a way to find what was auctioned off? I am particularly interested in April 2007 Lot # 1512. Thank you in advance.

You would need an account with Legendary Auctions. Then go to history where you can search specific Auctions.

Here is the link for this specific item:
http://legendaryauctions.com/LotDeta...entoryid=70657

[Buythatcard]

Just saw the list and it was disturbing. Was shocked (not really) to see that someone shilled me. You hear about it all the time but when you see the actual proof, it makes you sick.

I don't know many of the names but will hope to find out whether any of these consignors or shillers are associated with any active Auction House today. It will be a perfect time to remove them from my list of AH's that I bid on.

This list is only a drop in the bucket.

Who can you trust in this world?

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

Just saw the list and it was disturbing. Was shocked (not really) to see that someone shilled me. You hear about it all the time but when you see the actual proof, it makes you sick.

I don't know many of the names but will hope to find out whether any of these consignors or shillers are associated with any active Auction House today. It will be a perfect time to remove them from my list of AH's that I bid on.

This list is only a drop in the bucket.

Who can you trust in this world?

1+ I would like to know that too

[RichardSimon]

Who is Hal Lewis???

[ksabet]

I'm sorry but I can't help but to find it humorous that some of the most egregious shillers were also victims.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by ksabet

I'm sorry but I can't help but to find it humorous that some of the most egregious shillers were also victims.

Quickly glancing... is it that or is it just that they won an item back or helped another consigner win an items back. I'll scratch yours if you scratch mine sort of deal.

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by Forever Young

Quickly glancing... is it that or is it just that they won an item back or helped another consigner win an items back. I'll scratch yours if you scratch mine sort of deal.

Not sure, there are different line items for winners and "victims" so I am assuming this was determined.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Who is Hal Lewis???

Used to be a regular on the board, who had an impressive collection, then sold it all off. If you search his name and his shill bidders name, you'll see they share the same profession in the same town

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by z28jd

Used to be a regular on the board, who had an impressive collection, then sold it all off. If you search his name and his shill bidders name, you'll see they share the same profession in the same town

And...I believe he was a high fallutin lawyer of some sort!

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by z28jd

Used to be a regular on the board, who had an impressive collection, then sold it all off. If you search his name and his shill bidders name, you'll see they share the same profession in the same town

Got mega-rich by suing Big Tobacco. Didn't need to shill. Should be in jail.

[martyp]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

Just saw the list and it was disturbing. Was shocked (not really) to see that someone shilled me. You hear about it all the time but when you see the actual proof, it makes you sick.

I don't know many of the names but will hope to find out whether any of these consignors or shillers are associated with any active Auction House today. It will be a perfect time to remove them from my list of AH's that I bid on.

This list is only a drop in the bucket.

Who can you trust in this world?

If you go through the list, you will see former Mastro employees who are currently (as far as I know) still employed with other auction houses.

[T206Collector]

I would like to see a summary of:

1. Current Grading Company Officials
2. Current Autograph Authentication Company Officials
3. Current Auction House Officials
4. Current Dealers/eBay Sellers

[khkco4bls]

There are alot of scumbags in this world..

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by conor912

I think shilling other peoples' auctions happens more than you think, though it is hidden under the guise of "Protecting one's investment".

Say you pay $5k for a card today, then next week another one in the same grade comes up for auction. Nearing the end of the auction it looks like it's going to sell for $3500, so you bid it up with no intention of winning it to give the illusion of it maintaining the market value that you set for it with your $5k purchase.

I guess so, but how would you know that you weren't going to win the auction that you had no intention of winning? You would have to know what the max bid was, and that's the main case against Maestro and his cronies...

[conor912]

Originally Posted by wolf441

I guess so, but how would you know that you weren't going to win the auction that you had no intention of winning? You would have to know what the max bid was, and that's the main case against Maestro and his cronies...

I was more speaking in general, and not necessarily related to Mastro. And yes, you wouldn't know the max bid....that's why sometimes shillers do win unintentionally.