1993 Hawaiian Winter League Ichiro

[FirstYearCards]

http://japanesebaseballcards.blogspo...gue-cards.html

Looking for any updated info on this card/cards. I'm aware of the 4 versions, but has anyone ever looked further into this. Any comments appreciated.

[DaClyde]

Since these all trace back to a single "dealer" in Hawaii, and no one has ever seen an actual "set", I still think these are bogus customs produced sometime in 2001. The "reprints" just being a red herring to lend credence to the non-reprints being legit. Beckett and PSA are just stuck in an Emperor's New Clothes situation.

[Exhibitman]

If there was a real break-in in Hilo it would generate a police report as well as probably a local news story. Anyone on the Big Island could check into it if they are in Hilo.

[DaClyde]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

If there was a real break-in in Hilo it would generate a police report as well as probably a local news story. Anyone on the Big Island could check into it if they are in Hilo.

And seriously, in 1993, what thief stealing from a card shop in 1993 would snag a pile of worthless winter league cards?

[DaClyde]

Dredging this from the grave, I did just find this article from 1993:

https://www.newspapers.com/article/h...nte/124015678/

[Exhibitman]

Great research, Jason. It certainly lends credence to the 1993 date.

[mrmopar]

The article certainly makes a great case, but the rest of the story stinks of well timed "mystery" cards surfacing when it would be most beneficial to the seller. I remember selling 2 of the McGwire Glacier cards for a shop, as I was listing things on ebay for them as a side gig. This was in the late 90s (probably after the 70 season), as would make the most sense, and I have my doubts they were even made in the 80s! I think those were possibly made in the 90s (unless there is proof I am unaware of that they were an 80s issue). Nobody seemed to have known about them before then and all of the sudden they were out there and worth $400 (The price I think I got for each one I sold at the time).

The article doesn't prove anything other than a pre-sale was happening on sets, that apparently to this day still do not seem to exist in full 32 card form. That in itself is another reason to believe these Ichiro cards were not made, or at a very minimum, not issued or sold in 1993. It is entirely possible the guy made sets in 1993 and held onto them all for some reason, but that seems highly unlikely. How does not one single full set of these seem to exist?

A fun mystery we may never know the real answer for sure.

[DaClyde]

While the wording isn't clear, the article makes it sound like there were either 4 sets of 32 cards, one for each team, or a single 32-card set including all 4 teams. Either way, that puts the total either to 32 cards or 128 cards, of which only 3 or 4 have ever surfaced (supposedly there is also a Benny Agbayani in circulation), and naturally of the most popular players in 2001 (not 1993).

The timing sort of makes it even mor suspicious, as the season wasn't over, so Ichiro wasn't the league standout, yet, which gives even less reason for him to be so prominent in a 1993 set.

I do remember seeing the McGwire Anchorage Glacier Pilots cards in 1987. They were showing up at card shows, but they were definitely printed in 1987 (and subsequently in the lunch room at school), not 1982. The team even said as much when asked about them. But information just didn't circulate well back then. Unless it was printed in the hobby magazines repeatedly, most collectors would still miss that bit of information.

[todeen]

My take from the article, why 500 cards of Sid Fernandez?

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[jp1216]

Originally Posted by todeen

My take from the article, why 500 cards of Sid Fernandez?

Sid Fernandez is from Hawaii. Kaiser HS.

I remember getting a Pepsi Promo card of Sid at a show in Hawaii in early '91.

[packs]

I don't think these cards are real. The set mentioned doesn't have any checklist attached to it. While it might be some other scarce regional issue there is no guarantee the set referenced in the news article featured Ichiro or is related in anyway to the supposed set with the Ichiro we're familiar with.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't think these cards are real. The set mentioned doesn't have any checklist attached to it. While it might be some other scarce regional issue there is no guarantee the set referenced in the news article featured Ichiro or is related in anyway to the supposed set with the Ichiro we're familiar with.

Ichiro was on the team whose set is mentioned though, no? Seems unlikely they would have made a set without him.

[packs]

There are no players mentioned at all. It just says Hawaii league. That’s what I’m pointing out. There are no identifying characteristics listed for the set mentioned in the article at all. It’s just assumed this Ichiro card is part of the set mentioned in the article but there’s no real connection that anyone can discern from that short article. I’ve yet to encounter a set that managed to feature every single player in the league. I would say it’s hard to suggest that because Ichiro played in the league and there may have been a small set produced for this card show that the set must have featured Ichiro. You can’t tell which is all I’m saying.

[packs]

From a collector who was there when this team existed, collected contemporary minor league sets exactly like this one, who also never heard of or saw these cards until 2001:

http://japanesebaseballcards.blogspo...cards.html?m=1

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

There are no players mentioned at all. It just says Hawaii league. That’s what I’m pointing out. There are no identifying characteristics listed for the set mentioned in the article at all. It’s just assumed this Ichiro card is part of the set mentioned in the article but there’s no real connection that anyone can discern from that short article. I’ve yet to encounter a set that managed to feature every single player in the league. I would say it’s hard to suggest that because Ichiro played in the league and there may have been a small set produced for this card show that the set must have featured Ichiro. You can’t tell which is all I’m saying.

So you think it was just one 32 card set for the whole league? I read it as a 32 card set of each team, in which case it's a pretty fair inference the Hilo team included Ichiro. But perhaps not. In this hobby there is no end to deception of course.

[packs]

It says a lot of things that are inconclusive and not at all concrete. I read it as 32 cards per team, but it also says the event is to purchase "pre-sales" of the set, which there's no guarantee was ever produced. That's the whole point. The mention is too brief and too vague to draw any conclusions from. Even if there was such a set, you can't assume the checklist the same way you can't assume any other checklist for any other set. There are no 2022 rookie cards for Adley Rutschman, for example, and he finished 2nd in ROY. And you can't assume this was the design of the set mentioned in the article. There are no photos of it.

I read the first person account I linked to and several threads on other forums. They tend to reach the same conclusion: nobody saw this card until 2001.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

It says a lot of things that are inconclusive and not at all concrete. I read it as 32 cards per team, but it also says the event is to purchase "pre-sales" of the set, which there's no guarantee was ever produced. That's the whole point. The mention is too brief and too vague to draw any conclusions from. Even if there was such a set, you can't assume the checklist the same way you can't assume any other checklist for any other set. There are no 2022 rookie cards for Adley Rutschman, for example, and he finished 2nd in ROY. And you can't assume this was the design of the set mentioned in the article. There are no photos of it.

I read the first person account I linked to and several threads on other forums. They tend to reach the same conclusion: nobody saw this card until 2001.

It was delayed in production lol.

[packs]

Most importantly, in my opinion, is the fact that Jason Giambi would have been the big draw for this supposed set. He was an American player drafted in the 2nd round in 1992, had his own card already in the 1991 and 1992 Topps Traded sets and would have just won the MVP in 2000, conveniently one year before Ichiro arrives in the US.

If there really was a 1993 Hawaiian Winter League card of Jason Giambi it would have been a chase card far before Ichiro was and there didn't seem to be any.

[packs]

The final nail in the coffin:

The third and final subject from the set that I'm aware of is supposedly Benny Agbayani.

Again, the year 2000 comes into play. Benny Agbayani would have just finished starring in the Subway Series against the Yankees in the year 2000.

Why is this important? Because of all the theoretically 128 individual subjects supposedly in the set (4 teams with 32 cards each) only the three relevant players in 2001 have emerged:

Ichiro (huge superstar coming over to America), Jason Giambi (reigning 2000 MVP), and Benny Agbayani, who just happened to play in the league at the same time and had the fortune of appearing in the last World Series against the Yankees.

That should do it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Man, people have paid real money for these too. Jeez.

[mrmopar]

Love stuff like this. Is this standard card size or larger, like a postcard?

Originally Posted by jp1216

Sid Fernandez is from Hawaii. Kaiser HS.

I remember getting a Pepsi Promo card of Sid at a show in Hawaii in early '91.

[mrmopar]

This pops up when I did a Sid Pepsi search.

[jp1216]

Originally Posted by mrmopar

Love stuff like this. Is this standard card size or larger, like a postcard?

Standard 2 1/2 x 3 1/2.

Originally Posted by mrmopar

This pops up when I did a Sid Pepsi search.

Nice! A match! Looks like Cutter Automotive was the lead sponsor (along with Pepsi & 7-11).

[mrmopar]

Card sized makes that an even better score.

I was stationed on Oahu while this promotion was happening, but never knew about it. Bummer. I remember all the Cutter dealerships though and a group of us even went down to pick up an old beater Dart from one.