Today's Baseball and the Playoffs- O/T

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Posted By: moderator

Since the other thread had 127 posts I figured I would lock it and start another. Have at it guys....

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

All right, I get to start things off... why with: "Jeter Sucks" - just kidding... I'd take him on my team any day. I'm not saying he's the second coming of Hans Wagner but he'd do.

Looks grim for the Twinkies... The A's are about to break their streak of final game losses!!!

I just hope those Tigers take it to the Yanks and at least make it a good series. It'll probably end up being one of the better divisional series.

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Posted By: runscott

Tomorrow's headlines: "Twinkies Had Bad Filling"

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

As a Mets fan, I think they'll sneak into the WS despite losing their 1 and 3 pitchers; the NL is so weak they should manage. My biggest fear is having to play the Yankees without Pedro and El Duque; with them I think the Mets could take them but without it could be humiliating.

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

but they didn't show up at all. That looked nothing like the team I paid Direct TV to watch all year, and it's hard to believe they've made the postseason 4 of the past 5 years.

I knew the Twins were in trouble with starting pitching, but did not expect to see the hitters disappear with those deer in the headlights expressions on their faces (especially with men on base). I also was surprised they all decided to read Dick Stuart's fielding manual before the series. Sadly, I was not so surprised to see Torii Hunter play with his head up his a$$.

Still, they have Santana, Liriano and three rookie starting pitchers who tasted success at the big league level. Throw in Mauer and Morneau, maybe Cuddyer and some assorted other hitting talent, along with the best bullpen in baseball, and it looks good for the near future.

Hats off to the A's. They have solid pitching, as do the Tigers. The Yankees do not, which is why that again this year they will not be crowned champs.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

If he isn't risking permanent injury, he ****ing better be in there! You don't wuss out of a playoff for a muscle strain. I wonder what the over/under is on that...

The Twins choked up worse than Jimmie Foxx...Perhaps Hunter needs to hear what we tell our Little Leaguers: Stay on your feet and make the safe play.

As much as it saddens me to say it, I agree that the Yankees are not likely to win it all with their pitching, unless Randy Johnson does a Dracula and has a remarkable series of outings. Mussina isn't a #1 and won't carry the staff; neither is Wang (This is my friend, Mr. Wang--no offense...I hear this place is restricted, Wang, so don't tell 'em you're Jewish, okay?). Their middle relief is suspect at best and Rivera is a question mark. The only way I see them winning it all is if their hitters go on a tear and allow the staff to give up 5 runs a game. Not a real likely scenario.

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Posted By: barrysloate

There was a bit of a knotty problem in today's game. The Twins had a man on third base with two outs. The batter struck out, but the catcher dropped the ball and had to make the putout at first base. It appeared that both the batter and catcher nonchallanted it to first, and that the runner on third crossed the plate before the putout was made. If the runner at third did in fact cross the plate first, why wouldn't that run count? There was no forceout, and the ball was live. Just one of those plays I never considered before.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Adam, I'd agree with you on this point normally except you have to appreciate that no one else has any pitching this year either-and incredibly, with Pedro and El Duque down, the Yanks may have the best pitching of any team remaining-and certainly the best hitting by far. The Mets have better middle relief but that's about it now. Hard to think the Mets have a chance, though, when you consider that games 3, 4 and 5 of the WS could be started by Trachsel, Oliver Perez, and John Maine. Maine is a 5 really and the other two bark like dogs....

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Posted By: Joann

AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEEEE! Anyone just hear Ernie Harwell call the top of the 4th in the Tigers/Yankees game??? "STRIKE three - he stood there like a house by the side of the road." Gives goosebumps.

I was actually wishing even a Yankee would hit a home run, just to hear Ernie say it was looonnnngggg gone.

It was good to hear him again. He hasn't lost a step.

Joann

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Posted By: Scott Gross

Actually, a play at a base after a dropped third stike is a force out.
(((One of my favorite baseball rules, don't have time right now, I'll explain later)))

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Posted By: barrysloate

Scott- I am sure you are correct but my thinking was that when the catcher drops a third strike, it is considered a passed ball, and at that moment it is a live ball. It would almost be like stealing home before the out is made at first.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

making the playoffs was a real bonus for us Twins fans after there dismal start. It was a wonderful regular season but that sure were not the same team in the Playoffs. I like there future though I don't think we have seen the last of this bunch.

Now if the Yanks get beat today, Go Tigers!!!!!!

Lee

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Posted By: barrysloate

The Yankees are getting beat today, and some heads may roll.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

In spite of themselves the Padres actually pulled one off today. How the heck do you have about 20 baserunners with only 3 runs to show for it? Pitching - that's the only thing that saved them.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I just caught a few Yankee players polishing their golf clubs in the dugout. They'll be on the links by Monday.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

The Tigers pitched like, in the words of Ivan Rodriguez, "that Jewish fellow, the lefty hall of famer." Do steroids lower your IQ and affect your memory?

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Posted By: Patrick McHugh

Well i now think Arod is a curse. Every team he goes to gets worse and every team he leaves gets better. Also i think this is the first mlb season ever without a 20 game winner. If so thoughts on this.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

I'm not sure if the Yankees would unload ARod because of this because it's still a team game. Also, his $25M/season is a huge committment by any team. If they do "unload" him I get the feeling it's going to cost them a few dollars.

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Posted By: Josh Adams

Now on "America's Toughest Want List:"

1. A post-season series victory for the New York Yankees!

While I'm not a fan of the Tigers, it's great to see anybody bounce the Yanks from post season.
Gee, a scrapy upstart, with stellar pitching, great defense, and timely hitting.
Where have I heard this story before . . . ?

Go Go White Sox
2005 World Series Champions!

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

What a great scene that was in Detroit with all the players celebrating with the fans.

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Posted By: Joann

Yeah - that was so cool when the players came back out and circled the field spraying the fans with champagne. Wow. hahahaha. Glad I didn't bet this one. Sorry to say, I didn't think the Tigers would ever get past the Yankees, no matter when they hooked up in the playoffs. Being wrong has never been such a joy!

J

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Posted By: john/z28jd

I work with about 10 Yankees fans and i called this series game for game,saying Wang would win game 1 and Tigers would win the next 3 with their better pitching. Feels good to be right!


Im taking orders on my new t-shirt ideas:

$200 million and all i got was this AL East championship t-shirt

Comes in navy blue with white letters. Let me know how many people want them.I also have a new 2nd favorite team, GO TIGERS!

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Posted By: joe

A great day in Detroit, we just saw 2 great pitching performances against the $200 million Yankee lineup. Along with some manager mistakes by playing Sheffield at 1st base for 2 of the games. Besides not being a 1st baseman, he could not catch up to any pitches. Jeter did hold up his end of the bargain, no other Yankees did. Yankees will make moves and get better pitching for next year.

Joe

Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

John,
If you're serious about those tee shirts, put me down for an X-large. Would love to stroll the streets here in New York in that!!

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Again, the old axiom is proved: good pitching beats good hitting. I'm shocked at how lame the Yankees looked (and am thrilled that the Mets may actually have a real shot at the championship this year). I'm not sure that moving ARod is so impossible, additionally: part of his salary right now is paid by the Rangers. What if the Yankees picked up 5 mil or so and sent him to a smaller market team? It might be a situation where Texas pays 8 mil or so (not sure of the number), the Yankees pay 8 mil or so (to be rid of him) and the next team only pays 8 or so. The guy really needs to be out of the limelight. Kansas City anyone?

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Im going to see if my friend will do it for me,he owns a screen printing shop BUT hes a Yankees fan so who knows. If i did make them it would be pretty basic,no team symbols but id definitely sell them for cost just to get them out there.

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Posted By: Patrick McHugh

Could you imagine AROD in K.C. As stated he is a curse and makes teams worse. K.C. with AROD may only win 30 games!

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Posted By: barrysloate

If there is any justice here it is that money doesn't automatically get you what you want. I've followed the Yankees for years but it is good to see the little guy beat the Goliath. The Yankees need to understand that they do not have a good business model and that all the money in the world can not buy them a championship. It will be interesting to see if there will be major changes in the off-season. But what team would want all their overpriced and aging players?

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Barry and everyone else who criticizes the Yankees business model: don't you think every team would spend all that money IF they could spend all that money? That's the curse of the Yankees pretty much. Billy Beane would kill to overpay Zito next year.

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Posted By: barrysloate

If Cashman were given a budget of $100 million and asked to start over again, don't you think he could put together just as good, if not a better team? So what do the Yankees get for that extra $100 million? Absolutely nothing. A shameful waste of money.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I agree to some extent. But when you have an unlimited budget the temptation is to keep tweaking, adding, buying... The big problem with the Yankees has simply been buying bad pitching: Randy Johnson has sucked, Pavano hasn't played at all, they got suckered on Jaret Wright. That being said, who could have imagined those big Yankee bats would come up so lame?

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

JEFF L.

Forget the $200 Million + salary, forget ARod's poor performance, and yes, "big bats
will come up lame" in October....unless your name is REGGIE....it's the pitching that
wins every Fall season.

And,when you get rid of "home grown" players like Soriano, Pettitte, etc....who
have proven to be winners.....then Cashman & Steinbrenner deserve losing.

I'll never understand why Pettitte was let go....can anyone out there explain why?
And, Clemens still could pitch and these are the guys that win for you in October.

Everyone of us know that Play-offs are primarily won by the team who has dominant
pitching staff.....what is it that Cashman & Steinbrenner don't understand ?
Even David Wells could have done better if he was still in pin-stripes. Wells holds
one of the more formidable post-season pitching records.

It would be nice if the Mets could win.....but they too are lacking in the pitching
department with their two aces on the DL. I don't think NY will be represented in
the World Series this year.

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Posted By: Rich W.

I agree that the Yankees are "cursed" with their 200 million dollar payroll. With that much money, it eliminates the need for Cashman and Steinbrenner to think. They'll buy the best available in free agency, and re-load (ie. Abreu) before the trade deadline. By buying the "best" they can blame the players (or the coaches) when the team fails. When you are Billy Beane, you have to make every transaction stick. There is no room for error so you work and study and manage that much better.

With my overrated, underperforming team already out of it (The BoSox), it was enjoyable to see the most underachieving playoff performer and most overpaid athlete go down with his team in the fashion that they did.

Rich W.

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Posted By: Brian

Two words: Trade A-rod

Oh, yeah, Jaret Wright and Pavano as well...

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

I would have paid good money to watch King George during and after the Tiger/Yankee game. I'm still waiting for a few good sound bites of George from after the game. Money may not buy a championship but at least it makes the season more interesting. I wonder if it makes the let down bigger?

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Posted By: Joe_G.

Wow, congrats to the Tigers, As, Mets, and Cards/Padres.

I can't believe I was out of town this weekend. I had tickets offered to me for both Friday and Saturday games but the wife & I already had planned and paid for Texas vs OU game so here I am in Dallas. OU lost, but still one of the best sports weekends ever thanks to the Tigers. I caught most of the Friday game in Atlanta (lay-over) at a Chilis restaurant and the rest on the plane's satelite radio. Then, today, I had to resort to ESPN game cast on my cell phone for pitch by pitch updates until the 9th when I found a beer tent to finish watching the game. So here I was at the Texas State fairgrounds, a bunch of different college football games on with one TV showing the Tigers. When Walker got the last out, there was a louder cheer than any of the football games could muster. Lot's of Yankee haters down here. OK, I'm rambling.

Jay Miller - Sorry our "pussycats" didn't play nice

John - Good job if you picked Detroit in 4, how does the pitching match up for Tigers / As?

Troy, Joann, Keith, Mike, Joe, Joe, and anyone I'm forgetting - We should meet up for an ALCS game !

Best Regards,
Joe Gonsowski

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Posted By: jay wolt

"I'll never understand why Pettitte was let go....can anyone out there explain why?"
Pettitte wasn't let go, released or traded.
He chose to sign w/ his local team the Astros to be close to his family in Texas.
The Yankees persued him as a free agent and I believe Houston signed him for less. Pettitte was also the major factor to lure Clemens out of his 1st retirement to try and win a World Series for the state of Texas.

Regarding the Tigers winning the series.
It doesn't surprise me all that much, and I'm a Yankees fan.
The media had the Yankees as a lock but in a short series anything can happen.
The Tigers dominated most of the season and had the best record in all of baseball with a week or so to go.
They ended up with 95 wins, the Yankees with 97.
Its not like they had 60 wins and the Yankees 115
So payroll aside, they have a damn good team and deserved to be in the playoffs, and with Rogers & Bonderman's 2 pitching gems, they would have beat anyone.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Joe,the only "possible" matchup they have so far is Robertson vs Zito in Oakland tuesday and thats not even definite. That would obviously be an advantage for the A's. If thats what it is then:
game 2 should be Loaiza vs Verlander
game 3 Rogers vs Haren back in Detroit
game 4 Bonderman vs Harden(possibly)
then back to the top. For the A's thats how they would want their rotation but for Detroit i think its a mistake because Bonderman would only go once in a 7 game series,and i would think you'd want Robertson to be that 4th game guy who could go long in game 7 if needed.

Should be a much more even series but i wouldnt be surprised if they went with the 3 guys who got them past the Yankees games 1-3 which would give them the advantage in my mind. Oakland has about 10 guys who could start game 4 if they wanted to (Blanton, Saarloos,Halsey,Kennedy,Harden) so who knows if they will still go with Harden who only started 9 games all year and struggled in his last start

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Posted By: Scott T

After the Padres finally unleashed their offense today (3 whole runs!), things look a bit better for San Diego. A win on Sunday would make Monday's game very interesting. As a Friar fan, it is hard to be objective, but if they can come back from an 0-2 deficit in 1984, whey can't they it in 2006? (Insert your own "Sutcliffe-Carpenter" reference here.)

If, and it's a big "if", they can get by Carpenter on Sunday, I can't believe Jeff Weaver can be as dominant as he was in game two.


I don't smoke or drink, but will offer Joboo some run and a cigar in the morning!

Go Pads! (...although 1 for 25 with RISP will not cut it anymore!)

Scott

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

Patrick- Arod in kc maybe his only fit. Teahan would stay at third at A-Rod will go back to SS....Kc would only lose 99 this time.

Barry- Cashman wouldnt know how to spend 100 mil, and no you
really couldnt fund a comparable team.

Joe.G.....sadly for me, I nixed my playoff tickets to make sure
that i had funding for odds and ends at my new carpet store.
Like a dummy, i have spent the amount it would have cost for the tickets at the schtinky casino !....wish I could meet, maybe
next year when we come back. my insider said we would make a possible trade for Texiera of Texas, my thought if Casey plays
well enough they may not. Casey and Tex both at 1b and dh
is a good combo. Also, they said they werent going after another starter. I would be, we need the 5th guy to be really
good.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

For those of you wanting the ARod trade it is more conceivable than you think the Rangers are paying 8 Mil a year of the contract and there is already been specualtion of a trade to the Angels with Chone Figgins as the main figure going to the Yanks.

The game is still a team game where pitching & defense dominates. Just look at all those great hitting Texas teams that the Yankees should down with good pitching in there winning years. Guys like Paul O'Neil and Scott Brosius are more important than a lineup full of All-Stars.

I laugh at the people that think that Jeter should win the MVP over Justin Morneau or Jermaine Dye. He had that great lineup around him and when Shef & Matsui were injured that only left 7 allstars in the lineup, isn't that a shame.

Here's to great ALCS series and World Series games,

Lee

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Scott,

I think that the Charger and Padre games will be on at or near the same time on Sunday...

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Jay Wolt

Thanks for answering my "?" regarding Pettitte.......I understood that. However, there
had to be some larger, underlying reasons for him to leave besides wanting to be back
in his home state and his family. I can only speculate that there were some behind the
scenes differences with Cashman or Steinbrenner.

History has told us from Herb Pennock to Lefty Gomez to Joe Page to Whitey Ford to
Ron Guidry and David Wells and Andy Pettitte......the NY Yankees only win when they
have a dominant SOUTHPAW in their pitching staff. That doesn't take away from the
great Righthanders over the years.....Jack Chesbro, Red Ruffing, Spud Chandler, Allie
Reynolds, Vic Raschi, Mel Stottlemyre, etc., etc. But, it's been proven that a solid
Lefty has to be in the mix.

And, don't tell me an ailing, aging Randy Johnson fits into this category anymore.

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Posted By: Aaron Cowan

I know it will be repeated ad nauseam that the Yanks had soooo much money in the lineup and only have an AL East Banner to show for it. I became anti-Yankees when they started spending money, and I enjoyed watching an atempt at monopolizing talent repeatedly back-fire.

There's something to be said about line-ups with the likes of Brosius, Knobloch, and O'Neill. I suppose the New Yorkers expected less from the lesser names and were pleased when success came there way. But when a line-up becomes saturated with #3 and #4 hitters and perennial all-stars then expectations exceed what even those players in all their talent can deliver. Even a team with half that talent would be under so much pressure to win it all.

It still cracks me up though that the Yankees management doesn't get it. The previous posts are dead-on....IT'S ABOUT PITCHING!! That's why the Mets had a good chance (emphasis on had), and either the Tigers and A's have a much better chance of winning the WS. I'm a Cardinals fan and know they don't have a much of chance if they make it to the NLCS. Give a team two or three good pitchers and two or three good bats and let luck be on your side to lead you to a WS.

Aaron Cowan
acowan19@gmail.com

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Posted By: dennis

if pay-rod comes thru in game 2 and series is tied 2-2 and it goes back to NY. wang vs.robertson....i'd take the yanks. pay-rod lack of a hit w/men on base was critical. so now thats it's over it's easy to say yankee pitching was not as good,but really the hitting let them down. imo i think torre should have gone with a set lineup. the better "team" won. these series really should be best 0f 7.

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Posted By: Joann

I'll try to make it if any of the Michiganders try to hook up for one of the ALCS games. Hee. I'm still smiling, and my Tigers flag gets to stay out for at least a few more days.

Joann

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

knoblauch was not one of your average Joe's he also was one of those arrogant overpaid players, I believe he was the highest paid second baseman at the time. Plus he was no where as good a yankee as a Twin.

Lee

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Posted By: Mike

Please stop calling him pay-Rod and refer to him by his real nickname, K-rod.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

You are right about Knoblach.....he should have stayed with your Twins. As a Yankee
he a was mediocre 2B who could not throw the ball 40 ft to 1st. I never understood
why Steinbrenner dumped Steve Sax, a .300 hitter as a Yankee with great defense,
to make room for Knoblach.

T-Rex TED

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Posted By: barrysloate

I never understood why Knoblauch couldn't make that easy throw from second to first. It was like a complete breakdown of confidence. Didn't Steve Sax go through exactly the same thing?