Just another Mantle auto question .....

[sdkammeyer]

Just ran across these and was wondering what you guys thought.......

[thetruthisoutthere]

Yikes!!!!

The photo is the usual crap that's been coming out of Florida for the past few years.

That crap usually has a COA from MFP Reborn, MFP Reborn II, Myst-O-Graph, YMC Sports, CSC Collectibles, My Favorite Players, Chris Morales, Nicholas Burczyk and others.

The "Mantle" on that baseball is a typical "Mantle" forgery.

[sdkammeyer]

Thanks for the input ..... I am not an auto collector, nor do I know squat about autos.
These are being sold at one of the many consignment auctions that seem to be popping up everywhere around me nowadays.
The only reason I ask is because "supposedly" these are being consigned by the family of a collector who passed away and there are a TON of autos in the auction. Many of which would have next to no value and wouldnt be worth faking in the first place ....... so I figured I would ask since I plan to head over to the auction for some other stuff anyways.


This is really the only other auto in the entire lot that may have any value at all:

[bender07]

Why don't novice collectors only buy from reputable dealers for these commonly forged autographs (Ted, Mickey and Joe D)? Is greed that much of a driver? I probably just answered my own question

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by sdkammeyer

Thanks for the input ..... I am not an auto collector, nor do I know squat about autos.
These are being sold at one of the many consignment auctions that seem to be popping up everywhere around me nowadays.
The only reason I ask is because "supposedly" these are being consigned by the family of a collector who passed away and there are a TON of autos in the auction. Many of which would have next to no value and wouldnt be worth faking in the first place ....... so I figured I would ask since I plan to head over to the auction for some other stuff anyways.


This is really the only other auto in the entire lot that may have any value at all:

"Consignment Auctions" is the new outlet for forgeries, especially the ones coming out of Florida.

[sdkammeyer]

Originally Posted by bender07

Why don't novice collectors only buy from reputable dealers for these commonly forged autographs (Ted, Mickey and Joe D)? Is greed that much of a driver? I probably just answered my own question

I agree 100% ..... and if I was a collector I would be doing just that ..... but as stated..... I am not an auto collector.

Greed has nothing to do with it in my case. I just figured that if it was a legit signature, and I could get it at a reasonable price, and somebody here on the forum wanted it, since I am going to the auction anyways, I would pick it up.

Thanks for your authentication professionalism

[bender07]

Oh sorry, you didn't mention that you were looking to provide this service to the board in the OP.

All you have to do is look at the front page of this forum and you'll see at least 5 Mantle authentication requests. Not the most thrilling topic of discussion.

[sdkammeyer]

Originally Posted by bender07

Oh sorry, you didn't mention that you were looking to provide this service to the board in the OP.

Completely understand. I didn't want to offer it before I knew it was legit.
And I didn't want to come off as some "ignorant broker" either.
So I just figured that if a couple people chimed in and said "it looks good to me" I would kindly offer to pick it up for someone if the selling price meets their criteria ..... since the auction it is coming from is not an online auction and I plan to attend.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by sdkammeyer

The only reason I ask is because "supposedly" these are being consigned by the family of a collector who passed away and there are a TON of autos in the auction. Many of which would have next to no value and wouldnt be worth faking in the first place .......

It's astounding how many of these freshly produced, ink jet fakes are coming from "estates" these days. Just how many 70- and 80-year-olds are buying these on ebay just to die a few months later?

My guess is the local auctions are salting real estate lots with these fakes.

[sdkammeyer]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

It's astounding how many of these freshly produced, ink jet fakes are coming from "estates" these days. Just how many 70- and 80-year-olds are buying these on ebay just to die a few months later?

My guess is the local auctions are salting real estate lots with these fakes.

I completely agree. I'm into cards, not autos ..... and I see SO often the same story....... "grandpa died and we are selling off his collection" .... and it will be a bunch of factory sealed 1980's topps/fleer sets and 2 trimmed prewar cards

And really ..... the ONLY reason I even brought the mantle pic over here to let you guys see it/offer it to you is because they pepper these auctions with things like this book that seem to have a bit of provenance ...... and again, I AM NOT A COLLECTOR ..... but here is a book from a negro league "party" or whatever .... with an invitation to the party, a book signed by the author.... and then signed by negro leaguers as well ....

All supposedly coming from the same consigner.

[dgo71]

Trouppe was always highly underrated in my opinion. Does that look legit? I don't recall Stearns' auto and have never seen Trouppe.

[sdkammeyer]

Originally Posted by dgo71

Does that look legit?

I hope you aren't asking me I have zero knowledge.

I just deduced that since the invitation says 1979, the ernie banks signature says 1979, the party was for clint thomas, and clint thomas also signed the book ...... that things seemed to add up.

[Wymers Auction]

I wish there were more bidders like Steve who asked questions first before purchasing forgeries. If more had practiced what he just did the forger's bellies would not be near as full.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by sdkammeyer

I hope you aren't asking me I have zero knowledge.

I just deduced that since the invitation says 1979, the ernie banks signature says 1979, the party was for clint thomas, and clint thomas also signed the book ...... that things seemed to add up.

No, I saw where you stated several times you don't collect autographs, so I was asking the other members who have more auto related knowledge. But I agree with you, it seemed like everything added up on the item. Do you know what the starting bid is for that item?

[sdkammeyer]

Originally Posted by dgo71

Do you know what the starting bid is for that item?

I have no clue. It is being offered at a new little auction house about an hour away from me. I have never been there before so I don't know what their normal procedures are.

[JimStinson]

The Trouppe looks OK, but what would concern me is that the only autograph in the book with any real value would be that of Turkey Stearnes and since the invitation is dated July 3rd 1979 in Kentucky and he died almost 2 months later to the day in Detroit. Did he actually make the trip ? Also items I've seen signed even several years prior look pretty shaky, the one in the book looks smooth as silk. Since its billed as the first Negro League reunion I'd guess Banks would remember it. Maybe someone should ask him
______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[bender07]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

The Trouppe looks OK, but what would concern me is that the only autograph in the book with any real value would be that of Turkey Stearnes and since the invitation is dated July 3rd 1979 in Kentucky and he died almost 2 months later to the day in Detroit. Did he actually make the trip ? Also items I've seen signed even several years prior look pretty shaky, the one in the book looks smooth as silk. Since its billed as the first Negro League reunion I'd guess Banks would remember it. Maybe someone should ask him
______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

My major concern as well.

[JimStinson]

In fact here is your answer right here...................


ASHLAND — Of the many things that Tom Stultz has accomplished in his life, one of his most treasured came more than 30 years ago.

It was in July the summer of 1979 when the first Negro League Baseball Reunion took place right here in Ashland.

Stultz, a native of Greenup who now lives in Lexington where is a senior vice president for IMG, was at the forefront of the event that was the springboard to the Negro League Baseball Hall of Fame in Kansas City that has served to honor some of the greatest players to ever live.

Much has been done since that time to bring recognition to some of those great players and teams, but Stultz’s idea is what started it all.

It started out because a friend of Stultz’s grandfather, Phil Leslie, had a family friend named Horace “Choppy” Thomas who liked to talk a little baseball.

“Choppy and Bea (his wife) were at every family event we had,” Stultz said. “Dave (Stultz) and I played a lot of ball and talked a lot of ball. Choppy was telling us about his brother Clint, who he said ‘played a little ball.’”

Tom Stultz sometime later read an article from a Charleston, W.Va., newspaper about a man named Clint Thomas from Greenup who played in the Negro Leagues and was called “the black Joe DiMaggio.”

Thomas’ nickname was “The Hawk” and further research from Stultz revealed what an amazing player Clint Thomas was in the old Negro Leagues. He did a story on him in the Greenup Sentinel, a paper Stultz owned that later became today’s Greenup News.

“Of the people I called — people like Satchel Paige, Cool Papa Bell, Monte Irvin — they all knew about Clint,” he said. “He was kind of a big deal.”

So it was Stultz’s idea to have some of the old players come in for an 80th birthday party for Thomas and that blossomed into a full-fledged Negro League Reunion. He merged the celebration with the Tri-State Fair and Regatta to give it more exposure and from there it exploded.

“At the banquet we had several hundred show up,” he said. “We had a press conference on a boat. Fourteen or 15 players came in for the birthday party to honor Clint Thomas.”

Stultz and his wife, Pat, moved from the area before the second reunion took place but Ashland Oil took the idea and ran with it and it was celebrated for two more years here.

Ernie Banks, Buck O’Neil, Monte Irvin, Jake Stevens, Turkey Stearns, Buck Leonard, Ray Dandridge, Judy Johnson, Ted Page, Eugene Benson and Leon Day came the first year. In later years, Banks, Paige, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Bob Feller and Happy Chandler were among the guests.

“Most of those guys are in the Hall of Fame,” Stultz said. “Clint still isn’t, but he should be. They started a wing (for the Negro League players) in Cooperstown.”

Stultz said many of the players stayed at his home in Greenup and talked about the old days for hours. He was mesmerized with all the stories.

“It started as an idea to honor Clint,” he said. “If I could have videotaped the stories. The mood just changed. Of course, I cry at the Smurfs, but when they got up and saw several hundred people turned out, those guys instead of getting up and joking were all choked up.”

The national media came to Ashland, including Sports Illustrated and NBC. It suddenly went from being a big birthday party to a time of honoring players who were incredibly talented but never received proper recognition. The stories that came from the memories of these men would make you laugh one second and cry the next.

“Having Ernie Banks and Monte Irvin at your house, as a baseball fan, it doesn’t get any better than that,” Stultz said. “They were telling stories about Luis Tiant Sr. when he was in the Cuban League. It was an incredible blessing to be involved in that.”

It also scored national points for the Ashland-Greenup area, who treated the Negro League players like the heroes they were. Stultz said he still gets goose bumps remembering the moments.

“To see the acceptance of that in Greenup, my hometown, and to get a thank you card signed by just about every African American in Greenup is one of my treasured possessions. I have it framed in my office at home.”

The Negro League Hall of Fame had a short life here, a couple of years at the old Jean Thomas Museum, before a movement was started to bring it to Kansas City, home of the Kansas City Monarchs of the Negro League era.

Buck O’Neil, who died about a year ago, was instrumental in getting the Negro League Hall of Fame in Kansas City, where it receives thousands of visitors a year. O’Neil did more to further the Negro League cause than anybody else but he sadly never made it into the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown.

Tom Stultz’s name probably isn’t in that Negro League Hall of Fame although maybe it should be. The recognition that the old league enjoys today started right here in northeastern Kentucky, when a big birthday bash for “the black Joe DiMaggio” became a movement to rightfully honor some of baseball’s all-time greats.

[yanks12025]

What about this Mantle? Didn't want to start another thread about mantle.

[Mr. Zipper]

Good IMO.

[sdkammeyer]

Nice find there Mr. Stinson!

Well, the auction is tomorrow at noon so if anyone is interested in the signed book just let me know what your top bid is and I would be happy to place it for you and mail you the book if you win.

[dgo71]

Awesome info, thanks Jim!

[shelly]

Mantle