Will a Colorado Rockie EVER be Elected to the Hall of Fame?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Probably condemned to the Hall of the Very Good along with guys like Jim Edmonds.

I hope that you're wrong about Edmonds not getting in.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Sean

I hope that you're wrong about Edmonds not getting in.

it'll be up to the committee as he fell of the ballot after only a year or so. IMO, if you are a Jim Edmonds fan, you should be rooting for Andruw Jones to get in as he is only 2.6 fWAR ahead of Edmonds and if Jones gets in, it buttresses Edmonds' case.

ETA: one thing that hurts Edmonds is roids. His best seasons were ages 32-35, that doesn't look very good.

[packs]

I ding Edmonds for his appearances on Real Housewives. I mean, I uh, heard he's on that show....from my girlfriend.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by packs

I ding Edmonds for his appearances on Real Housewives. I mean, I uh, heard he's on that show....from my girlfriend.

Shouldn't they have recruited Evan Longoria for that show? Oh, Yeah. That was 'Desperate Housewives'.


.

[Topps206]

Everybody benefits from hitting in Coors. Larry Walker was no different, but his HOF Standards and HOF Monitor scores are better than average, not to mention he's up there in black ink. JAWS ranks him 10th all time among right fielders, the only one in the top 10 not yet in and higher than 13 who are already enshrined.

He was still a fantastic player on the road and many times as a Rockie hit .300 or close to it away from Coors.

In my opinion, he is a Hall of Famer. He is also part of the Hall of Stats and Hall of Merit.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

it'll be up to the committee as he fell of the ballot after only a year or so. IMO, if you are a Jim Edmonds fan, you should be rooting for Andruw Jones to get in as he is only 2.6 fWAR ahead of Edmonds and if Jones gets in, it buttresses Edmonds' case.

ETA: one thing that hurts Edmonds is roids. His best seasons were ages 32-35, that doesn't look very good.

I cannot imagine Andruw Jones is ever getting in the HOF.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I cannot imagine Andruw Jones is ever getting in the HOF.

he should, greatest defensive OF'er of all time (and it's not even close) 400 homers, top 10 in CF WAR.

Higher career fWAR than Duke Snider, Andre Dawson, Richie Ashburn.


anyone who is one of the ten best at their position ,all time, should be in the HOF.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

he should, greatest defensive OF'er of all time (and it's not even close) 400 homers, top 10 in CF WAR.

Higher career fWAR than Duke Snider, Andre Dawson, Richie Ashburn.


anyone who is one of the ten best at their position ,all time, should be in the HOF.

I am not arguing the merits, I am just saying a .254 hitting outfielder will not get in, in my opinion. He really fell off the table at age 30, I can't remember now was it injury?

[nat]

Maz was a poor choice. He was a great fielder, but also a lousy hitter. I think that the home run made a big difference. FWIW, after he was elected the hall changed the way the vet's committee works, making it much harder for them to elect players.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by nat

Maz was a poor choice. He was a great fielder, but also a lousy hitter. I think that the home run made a big difference. FWIW, after he was elected the hall changed the way the vet's committee works, making it much harder for them to elect players.

Think he was offended? - or just glad to be in?


-

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by nat

Maz was a poor choice. He was a great fielder, but also a lousy hitter. I think that the home run made a big difference. FWIW, after he was elected the hall changed the way the vet's committee works, making it much harder for them to elect players.

I agree 58th in career 2b fWAR

82 wRC+ is 18% below avg hitter

according to fangraphs' DEF stat he is 3rd all time at 2b with 200.5

Maz was a pretty poor choice who I indeed think was buttressed by one home run.. which is pretty lame really. They already had a display about that home run so it could be celebrated without heavily lowering the HOF standard by putting him on.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am not arguing the merits, I am just saying a .254 hitting outfielder will not get in, in my opinion. He really fell off the table at age 30, I can't remember now was it injury?

he started having knee issues.

HOWEVER, he was in MLB at age 19. If he had come up at 22 and played until 38 would anyone have an issue? Instead it was 19-35ish and people think he crashed.

and batting avg? c'mon man, not even the voters use that any more. (and the few that did were purged)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

he started having knee issues.

HOWEVER, he was in MLB at age 19. If he had come up at 22 and played until 38 would anyone have an issue? Instead it was 19-35ish and people think he crashed.

and batting avg? c'mon man, not even the voters use that any more. (and the few that did were purged)

He basically did nothing after age 30 though. Up to that point he had phenomenal numbers.

[nat]

A. Jones for the hall is probably a no-go, but he's got an interesting case. By the best way we have for measuring defensive performance, Jones is far and away the greatest defensive outfielder of all time. (Paul Blair and Willie Mays are essentially tied for second, and Jones has about a 33% lead on them.)

There are reasons to be skeptical of this. The way the system works is that it breaks the field down into zones and assigns levels of credit for plays made in each zone, depending on how often someone playing your position makes a play in that zone. (You also lose credit if you fail to make a play in a zone that you should be expected to make given the position that you were playing.) Some people speculate that Jones was able to range out into LF and RF and make spectacular plays that his fellow outfielders would have made anyway. (They were spectacular for Jones because CF to RF can be a long way to go, they would be easy for the RF because he's already right there.) I don't know if this holds water, but it's one criticism of Jones' defensive performance.

Another problem is that we didn't have this zone-based measure of defense for most of baseball history. We did have less accurate ways of measuring defense; but, knowing that they are less accurate, when comparing players across eras we regress the less accurate stats towards average. This means that truly unusual performances (both positive and negative) get overlooked. So Jones might not be as far ahead of everyone else as it looks like he is.

If Jones really was as good defensively as our best defensive stats say that he was, he's well qualified for the hall. If the worries I raised above are on point, then he's a more iffy candidate. (At least on the merits. I agree he won't actually get in.)

[1952boyntoncollector]

The Marlins are in talks to trade Ichiro to the Rockies. He will hit 6 homers there rest of year if he is traded now and most importantly that would land them a former player in the HOF

[Topps206]

Andruw Jones has a case for Cooperstown. There is an argument for and against, but you'll be waiting a while if you think he will get in.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Topps206

Andruw Jones has a case for Cooperstown. There is an argument for and against, but you'll be waiting a while if you think he will get in.

I don't think he gets in on votes. But the vet committee will get him in.

That being said, the voters are getting more and more metrics focused every year and this kind of thinking would help the cases of guys like he, Walker and Edmonds.

IMO, if Ozzie Smith is in and Brooks Robinson, Andruw should be too as he was great with the glove and a better hitter than either of them.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Topps206

Andruw Jones has a case for Cooperstown. There is an argument for and against, but you'll be waiting a while if you think he will get in.

I agree. It takes more than these awards but at the same time, these can't be ignored.
MLB

5× All-Star (2000, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006)
10× Gold Glove Award (1998–2007)
Silver Slugger Award (2005)
NL Hank Aaron Award (2005)
MLB home run leader (2005)
NL RBI leader (2005)
NPB

All-Star (2013)
Japan Series champion (2013)