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  #1  
Old 07-16-2010, 05:37 PM
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Dan Bretta
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Default Very bummed out....what are my options?

So I won this item on ebay on Saturday night.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...T#ht_500wt_947

..I paid immediately with my paypal and got a note from the seller telling me that it was shipped out on Monday...well this seller lives only 50 miles from me in Omaha so I figure I'll have the package at the latest on Wednesday no matter what method they shipped it. On Thursday I contacted the seller and asked what method was used to ship it and they said it was sent priority and they gave me the tracking number...this morning I looked up the number and it showed that it was set to be delivered....my wife was home all day and never heard the mailman...I got home from running errands and saw that the mail was in my mailbox, but no sign of a package.

I ran out and did some more errands thinking that the postal carrier must have not gotten my package on his truck this morning....I started thinking maybe if I go down to the post office they'll have it there...well when I got there they looked it up in the computer and it showed as "Delivered"...they then called the postal carrier and he said he left the package on my front porch. As far as I know the only people on my porch today besides my family was the postal carrier and someone delivering flyers for a home repair company...I searched through the trash and found the wadded up flyer and called the company to ask them who was delivering those flyers and he asked me why...I explained my situation and he refused to give me their names....so I called the police and handed all the info to them.

Now what are my options here? I paid $284 for the photo (with tax and shipping), and it was sent without signature confirmation or insurance. Am I just screwed because it shows delivered? Anyone know if I can still claim with paypal? How do I do that?
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  #2  
Old 07-16-2010, 06:00 PM
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Sounds like a tough break Dan. Not sure there is a whole lot that can be done. The carrier says that he left it on the porch, so I would think that removes any liability on the seller. It will be hard to prove the person handing out flyers took it, unless someone witnessed them taking it.

Depending on what type of homeowners policy you have, some cover it (less the deductible).

Good luck.

r/
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  #3  
Old 07-16-2010, 06:08 PM
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Anything over $250 needs to be sent Signature Confirmation. I smell a scam....since the seller DID NOT send the item the way PayPal dictates to be protected, I would file a claim.....
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  #4  
Old 07-16-2010, 06:10 PM
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I think a brick through that florist's window would be a good start.
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  #5  
Old 07-16-2010, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 View Post
I smell a scam....since the seller DID NOT send the item the way PayPal dictates to be protected, I would file a claim.....
Where is the "scam"? The postal carrier says that he left it on the porch. Are you saying that the postal carrier is lying and took the package?
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Old 07-16-2010, 06:20 PM
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Hey Dan, you may want to call eBay Cust Svc and explain the situation - see if you have an recourse. After all, what do you have to lose..? They've been helpful with me in the past.

I agree that there may be nothing they can or will do given USPS shows delivered, but it was also left unsecured on your porch as well as uninsured (which I thought was or going to be a requirement?) I believe when push comes to shove, the item has to show delivered/received by you for the transaction to be completed - now that may be a simple USPS remark showing delivered or something more like signature, I don't know..? Either way, again, can't hurt to contact eBay Cust Svc and ask.

PS - don't bother with Live Chat. Whoever they have manning those things are usually clueless :-)
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  #7  
Old 07-16-2010, 06:22 PM
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Default Seller looses

BOBBYW8469 Is correct !!! The seller by ebay rules. Says anything over $250.00 has to have signature confirmation as soon as you talk to someone from ebay/paypal you will be REFUNDED. THANKS,CHRIS
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  #8  
Old 07-16-2010, 06:40 PM
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The seller just told me I'm out of luck since I didn't ask for insurance or signature confirmation....anyone know the number for ebay customer service?
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  #9  
Old 07-16-2010, 07:03 PM
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Dan-

Sorry this has happened to you, that sucks. I, IMO, think you should have an issue with the mail carrier for just tossing it on your porch when your wife was home all day. A simple knock at the door or ring of the doorbell would've avoided all of this- my carrier always rings my doorbell. If no one answers, he leaves a note letting me know he attempted to deliver, and he will try again tomorrow. He doesn't just leave it (I'm talking USPS, I have had Fed Ex and UPS just ring the bell and drop it before I even got to the door).

I also think it's suspicious that right around the time of delivery this "flyer" guy was on your property- I would be having an issue with the owner of that company for sure- he or she is somewhat responsible for their employees actions while on the job, I would think..........

I hope you get your item back Dan, good luck.

Sincerely,Clayton
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  #10  
Old 07-16-2010, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slidekellyslide View Post
The seller just told me I'm out of luck since I didn't ask for insurance or signature confirmation....anyone know the number for ebay customer service?
Tell the seller he is SOL...

Directly from eBay:

"eBay requires Signature Confirmation for packages valued at more than $250.00 USD to qualify for the eBay Seller Protection policy."

http://pages.ebay.com/help/pay/shipp...#signatureconf


EDIT:

From the PayPal Seller protection policy:

"Proof of delivery is acceptable documentation if a buyer files a claim, chargeback, or reversal for either an unauthorized payment or merchandise not received. You need online tracking information from a shipping company that:

Shows the status as delivered.
Shows the date of delivery.
Includes the recipient’s address, showing at least the city/state or ZIP code (or their equivalent).
For payments of $250 USD (or local currency equivalent) or more, includes proof of the recipient's signature to confirm delivery.

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/we...ection-outside

Last edited by Jason Carota; 07-16-2010 at 07:11 PM.
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  #11  
Old 07-16-2010, 07:08 PM
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Hey Dan
Sorry to hear about this. I think if nothing was stated in the listing, or offered otherwise, then the seller is responsible for getting the item to you. His recourse will be with the USPS, and he has none, as he didn't buy insurance. He needs to get you the card or a refund, imo....
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  #12  
Old 07-16-2010, 07:25 PM
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Default Did you check the time of delivery?

I had a similar problem once. A certified package was marked delivered at my address two hours prior to the normal time of delivery. I believe that the postman dropped the package off at the wrong house. After explaining the situation to my post office manager he had me fill out a claim and I eventually got my money pack from the post office. It took two months to get the refund, but it was $200.00.

In my neighborhood the mail gets delivered at the same time every day, so I had a pretty good case. You may want to check what time of day the postman marked the package delivered. If it doesn't match up you may have a claim.

I hope it works out,

Joe
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  #13  
Old 07-16-2010, 07:31 PM
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Dan,

The "Grand Slam" dudes post is spot-on. The seller is out of luck with this one. As per eBay's guidelines, it's the sellers responsibility to get it to you and the proof is in the signature confirmation pudding. Book em Danno!

Lovely Day...
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  #14  
Old 07-16-2010, 08:20 PM
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Jeez,

Forget legal technicalities. Who would be SOL if the package was valued at $245?

Would it then be Dan's fault because Ebay/Paypal guidelines say so?

I wouldn't want to be the Buyer or the Seller in this situation. Just a bad deal all around, and somebody who's honest is going to get burnt because of either P.O. negligence or theft, right off somebody's porch.
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  #15  
Old 07-16-2010, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D. Bergin View Post
Jeez,

Forget legal technicalities.
I do have some sympathy for the seller. But once the seller starts jabbering about the buyer not paying for insurance nor signature confirmation. Well, at that point he loses me and I file a claim. If the seller is not going to meet me halfway, then I'm going with......"legal technicalities" for ~$300.

Lovely Day...
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  #16  
Old 07-16-2010, 09:01 PM
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I called ebay and they told me I could file a claim, but that I would probably lose because of the delivery confirmation....I asked about the $250+ requirement of signature confirmation and he said that was just a suggestion for sellers. I then called Paypal and the guy at paypal told me to open a dispute and as far as he could see paypal would probably go in my favor. It's just a waiting game now...of course I'd rather have the photo so hopefully the police follow up on what I gave them.
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  #17  
Old 07-16-2010, 09:32 PM
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Oops!

Last edited by hunterdutchess; 07-16-2010 at 09:57 PM.
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  #18  
Old 07-16-2010, 09:43 PM
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Wow, note to self never deal with "hunterduchess," you would really destroy all auctions and BIN from a seller as retaliation in this case!?! The seller may be reluctant to refund thinking he has done what he was supposed to, I don't really see this case screaming "Crook"!

Tough decision here because someone is gonna get the shaft, either Dan or the seller. As a seller on ebay this stinks pretty bad as for a $100-200 item if I actually charge the cost of shipping plus D/C plus full insurance I will get crappy feedback for having too high of shipping fees but if I send with just shipping and D/C I'll get the shaft if a buyer "never gets the item"

*when I state "never gets the item" above I'm not implying anything about Dan as he is just about as trustworthy a guy as I have ever dealt with I'm just simply referring to the ridiculousness that is ebay in general.

-Rhett
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Last edited by rhettyeakley; 07-16-2010 at 09:45 PM.
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  #19  
Old 07-16-2010, 09:50 PM
sreader3 sreader3 is online now
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Sorry this happened to you.

Legalities are basically irrelevant here because the item is worth much less than the legal fees.

Morality says to me we have an honest buyer, an honest seller and a third party scumbag. So the loss should be split 50/50 between the buyer and seller. The scumbag should be pursued and go to prison for a long time if caught.
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  #20  
Old 07-16-2010, 09:56 PM
hunterdutchess hunterdutchess is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhettyeakley View Post
Wow, note to self never deal with "hunterduchess," you would really destroy all auctions and BIN from a seller as retaliation in this case!?! The seller may be reluctant to refund thinking he has done what he was supposed to, I don't really see this case screaming "Crook"!

Tough decision here because someone is gonna get the shaft, either Dan or the seller. As a seller on ebay this stinks pretty bad as for a $100-200 item if I actually charge the cost of shipping plus D/C plus full insurance I will get crappy feedback for having too high of shipping fees but if I send with just shipping and D/C I'll get the shaft if a buyer "never gets the item"

*when I state "never gets the item" above I'm not implying anything about Dan as he is just about as trustworthy a guy as I have ever dealt with I'm just simply referring to the ridiculousness that is ebay in general.

-Rhett
No I would not, I posted on the wrong thread. Sorry! I thought this was the guy who sold a card then refunded the buyer and then found out he still has the card.

Last edited by hunterdutchess; 07-16-2010 at 10:08 PM.
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  #21  
Old 07-17-2010, 05:17 AM
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I have seen many threads similar to this in the recent past, and in just the past month I have had two packages not arrive. It seems like getting a package in the mail is akin to a box of chocolates. "You never know what your going to get." Thanks Forrest.

Sometimes it will be in the box.
Sometimes it will be on the doorstep.
Sometimes UPS will knock and by the time I get to the door it is lying there and the carrier is making a dead sprint to his van.
Sometimes the UPS guy will leave a note saying he'll come back Thursday at 3:47.
Sometimes it says do not bend and it's rolled in my box.
Sometimes they leave it in the complex office.
Sometimes I have to pick it up at the Post Office.
Sometimes my neighbor gets it and brings it to me.
Sometimes the DC number says it made it to me and then was sent back to the sender. They of course never get it back.
Sometimes I just have to write it up as a loss.

Sometimes I wonder.... Do people with PO boxes have to deal with this? (Serious Question) Because that is what I am currently leaning towards.
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  #22  
Old 07-17-2010, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbfinley View Post
Sometimes I wonder.... Do people with PO boxes have to deal with this? (Serious Question) Because that is what I am currently leaning towards.
Granted, the expense is $10-$15 a month (depending on where you live), and you shouldn't have to do it if the USPS and delivery companies would do their jobs correctly, but I highly recommend having a box at a UPS store. I've never had a problem ***knocking on wood*** since I got one two-plus years ago, and I never have to worry about missing the postal carrier or FedEx guy or having something left on the porch or a neighbor's house.

Do I like paying $160 a year for one? No.

Do I think it's worth doing? Obviously.

(I suppose a post-office box would be close to the same thing, but I just feel that the quicker my package is out of the USPS' hands, the better. That's why I like having it delivered to a third party.)
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  #23  
Old 07-17-2010, 07:38 AM
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Dan:

I have had similar cases before, where the item was shown as "delivered", but it was not delivered to me. Eventually, the item showed up on my front porch between my screen door and main door after the regular mail was delivered. This indicated to me that the package had originally been delivered to the wrong address and the people who received the package in error delivered it to me themselves. If the package was delivered in error to someone else, then they put it back in the mailbox and the package went back to the post office for re-processing, then you're looking at several extra days before you see the package.

I would recommend waiting at least two or three weeks before you take any action on this package. I know it's hard to be patient, but it is possible that someone else has your package by accident. They could be on vacation and not realize that they have your package until they return from vacation.

Brad
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  #24  
Old 07-17-2010, 11:29 AM
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The best $40 I ever spent was getting a PO Box for my ebay/auction stuff. I go to the Post Office or drive by it everyday (small town) and I buy my Postal Workers a small gift every Christmas and those ladies treat everything I mail or receive like it was made of gold as a result. I have not had a single problem since I did this.
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  #25  
Old 07-17-2010, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leftygrove10 View Post
Dan:

I have had similar cases before, where the item was shown as "delivered", but it was not delivered to me. Eventually, the item showed up on my front porch between my screen door and main door after the regular mail was delivered. This indicated to me that the package had originally been delivered to the wrong address and the people who received the package in error delivered it to me themselves. If the package was delivered in error to someone else, then they put it back in the mailbox and the package went back to the post office for re-processing, then you're looking at several extra days before you see the package.

I would recommend waiting at least two or three weeks before you take any action on this package. I know it's hard to be patient, but it is possible that someone else has your package by accident. They could be on vacation and not realize that they have your package until they return from vacation.

Brad
I already took action, but if the scenario you describe is what happened and it eventually shows up I'll take all the necessary steps to rectify the situation. I hope your scenario is what happened and it eventually shows up...I doubt I'll see another one of these. It was like a perfect storm of wrongness...The package was already way late considering it only had to travel 50 miles to get to me, I wasn't home waiting for the mail, and my regular carrier was not working (my regular carrier is awesome and would have never left a package on my porch).
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  #26  
Old 07-17-2010, 01:05 PM
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The seller has the responsibility to get the package to the buyer. All indications are that he did so. I'm not sure why everyone is so quick to jump on the seller.

It was likely stolen. The item should be reported as such and when it shows up you have legal right to it.
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Old 07-17-2010, 01:05 PM
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Go to you post office, I have had this happen twice and both times box was at post office, lots of mailmen scan items back at there truck then if your not home they can't un-scan so them so they go to post office and wait to be picked up....
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  #28  
Old 07-17-2010, 01:34 PM
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Legally speaking the buyer may have a right to file a claim against the seller but morally speaking, I don't think he should.

I know it stinks, but why go after someone you know isn't at fault just for the money?

Better to go after the real crook, (flyer guy or post office), and not get your money back, than to go after an innocent person just for money.
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  #29  
Old 07-17-2010, 01:44 PM
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I just got a call from my wife who said the mailman just delivered the package....I feel like an idiot, but I was freaked out when the postal carrier said that he had left it on my porch...not only that, but he recalled I had two packages and he left one in the mailbox and the other on the porch because it said "Do not bend" on it...well he did leave the package from Goodwin and Co. (Catalog sent priority) in my mailbox so I figured he knew wtf he was talking about and that it had to have been stolen. I don't know if I acted irrationally or not, but I was very upset about losing that photo and may have acted a little hastily.
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Old 07-17-2010, 01:54 PM
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Glad to hear it Dan, that isn't really a "replacable" item so I know you are much happier with the item then the cash back!

-to hunterduchess, I understand where you got the two threads mixed up so I take back what I said about never dealing with you, I would be pretty steamed if it were me in the other instance as well!

-Rhett
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  #31  
Old 07-17-2010, 01:58 PM
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Thanks Rhett.
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  #32  
Old 07-17-2010, 04:00 PM
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Default Dan---

Glad to hear it worked out for 'ya! Nothing more maddening than to think/know a package was delivered, yet you can't find it & don't have it!

All kinds of scenarios run thru one's mind as to where it is & where to turn.
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Old 07-17-2010, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slidekellyslide View Post
I just got a call from my wife who said the mailman just delivered the package.
Hindsight is 20/20, but the first thing I did when I began reading this thread was to look for the "hey, it just showed up on my doorstep" post. I've had loads of weird problems with USPS, UPS and FedEx, but 99.9% of them got resolved in a day or two. There is something to be said for being a little patient.

Glad you got the package!
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  #34  
Old 07-17-2010, 08:30 PM
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Yeah, I'm a little embarrassed to have jumped the gun like that, but I was so antsy to get the package that I figured it must be at the post office or still on the truck...and when the postal carrier said he had put it on my porch I panicked a bit.
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Old 07-17-2010, 08:38 PM
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Hey Dan - glad it showed up! This way everyone wins! No worries on acting hastily, easy to see how emotions would have run high here - just fall on your sword w/the Seller and move on :-) Tomorrow it'll all be a memory.

Ed
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  #36  
Old 07-17-2010, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwolf1963 View Post
Hey Dan - glad it showed up! This way everyone wins! No worries on acting hastily, easy to see how emotions would have run high here - just fall on your sword w/the Seller and move on :-) Tomorrow it'll all be a memory.

Ed
Thanks Ed, I apologized to the seller and told her I acted too hastily. She told me that she learned a lesson too and she will now purchase signature confirmation on high dollar transactions.
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